Getting 3-bet with KJs

[lu_hawk]

Party 2/4, I raise UTG with KJs, a 2+2'er thinks for a while and 3 bets me, the BB calls, and I call. 3 to the flop.

Flop comes

KQx with 2 spades, I have diamonds.

BB checks, I check, 2+2er checks.

Turn is offsuit blank. BB checks, now I check planning to checkraise. What do you think?

[SLEEPER]

I think you need to bet this flop, and then decide to checkraise the turn. If it is checked behind, you have given up two free cards when you hand is vulnerable. There is no need for fancy play at the 2/4 tables. Make the players pay for their draws and weak starting hands.

[tree_stump]

Bet the flop and bet the turn

[AdamL]

I like check-calling the flop. Since he didn't bet, I'd guess you are ahead here.

[helpmeout]

2+2er probably has JJ TT 99 even

you have to bet this flop, if he raises then just call down.

he'll take the free turn knowing you are scared

[AdamL]

[ QUOTE ]
2+2er probably has JJ TT 99 even

you have to bet this flop, if he raises then just call down.

he'll take the free turn knowing you are scared

[/ QUOTE ]


I think a better reason to bet/raise would be the draw possibilities against you.

If he has JJ or TT, why not just let him bet for you? You don't want him to get off easy, and you'll save bets if you're behind.

Read "Playing Good Hands when it is 3 bets before the flop" in HEFAP.

Again, if your concerned about the draws, by all means bet. But I don't think you should get aggressive with him if he could have a range of hands, some of which you are way ahead and some you are way behind. You let him off easy when he's ahead and you only punish yourself when you're way behind.

[helpmeout]

Page 1 Introduction

Keep in mind .....

If you wanna give everyone a free ride then go ahead and call his bets.

If he has JJ or TT he is check/folding unless he improves, I'd rather findout what he has on the flop then decide whether to call down or not. (JJ TT 99 is taking a freecard on this flop against a preflop raiser)

[AdamL]

The problem is, you don't know he has JJ or TT on the flop. He could have AA-QQ (way ahead), AK, AKs. You're only ahead of 2 of 5+ of his possible hands. Also, I don't think a TA-A is going to just give up with JJ-TT when it gets checked to him on this board, at least not every time. Maybe if there were more opponents, but it's possible he'll bet against just two checks. He doesn't know you don't have AJ, AJs, TT, 99, etc.

Check calling the flop has more advantages. If he does check through, he only has two outs. It's a fine spot to do this. But I think you have to bet the turn when it gets checked through.

I see the merits in leading into him, but with the possibility of being raised and getting pushed off your hand, coupled with being way behind or way ahead... I do think check-calling is a fair alternative.

You see the benefits, right?

Put it this way. If you KNEW he had AK, AA-QQ, would you bet?

If you KNEW he had JJ and would fold to a bet, but might bluff if you checked to him, would you bet?

Adam

[helpmeout]

You still have BB in the hand also. So you going to give him a freecard as well?

The PFR could also just have a medium PP trying to get it headsup knowing you are much more likely to have high cards.

If you bet the flop at least you charge BB as well, if the PFR raises then you can check the turn. If he has a PP lower than the 2 board cards he will usually check it through especially if BB is still in the hand.

[Mackas]

I would bet the flop and turn and would not have raised UTG with the hand in the first place FWIW.