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#1
09-17-2005, 01:10 PM
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The Anguish of True Believers
Those who are not sure whether there is a God who punishes you merely for non belief fear their future and I put up a post to that effect. And I wondered what that must feel like. On the other hand I also wonder about those who completely believe there is such a God. How do they deal with the knowledge that 95% or so of their fellow human beings have a horrible fate in store for them?
Since most people have some pretty big faults, I suppose that religious zealots can rationalize away what they expect to be those people's fate. But what about the exceptions? How do they feel when they come upon the kindly old Jewish nurse who always has a smile for everybody and is the the first to lend a helping hand? Doesn't the realization that she will go to hell horrify them? Even if they truly believe the mumbo jumbo that all humans are inherently evil, deserving of hell, except for when God wants to forgive, my guess is that when they come upon such a person, their natural empathy makes it pretty hard to take comfort in that doctrine. (Not Ready is apparently so uncomfortable with this situation that he flirts with blasphemy [as far as udon'tknowmickey is concerned] by postulating that God might have ways of getting out of this tough spot even though he doesn't know how). 
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#2
09-17-2005, 02:11 PM
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Re: The Anguish of True Believers
I think for the hardcore religions and believers, it's a general 'them and us' philosophy. These people don't have much humanity in them, so I doubt they suffer much anguish over people going to hell.
For the old nurse, I think most believe God would make an exception, and maybe not even see the inconsistency or pay it much heed.
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#4
09-17-2005, 03:25 PM
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Re: The Anguish of True Believers
I admit that this makes me feel horrible. I try to think about the doom of others as little as possible but it just rears its ugly head over and over again.
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#5
09-17-2005, 03:36 PM
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Re: The Anguish of True Believers
Hey Spam I got a prop bet for ya.
What odds will you give me that by the time youre 30 you will be an agnostic?
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#6
09-17-2005, 03:42 PM
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Re: The Anguish of True Believers
im sorry but i would consider that stealing [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#7
09-17-2005, 04:14 PM
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Faith and Fear Displace Each Other
My sense is that Mr.Sklansky...
Doesn't actually know any True Believers of any faith... Largely because a True Believer... Would not associate with Mr.Sklansky... (Or me for that matter)... Viewing him as the worst possible kind of influence. But the answer is simple... Faith and Fear are polar opposites... One displacing the other. But to make any difference... Faith must be cultivated and built-up to a very high level... And at some point a person is greatly transformed. Then... and only then... Faith can be the catalyst for great "positive action"... Such as Martin Luther King's crusades... Or great "negative action"... Such as displayed by a Muslim suicide bomber. All fears have largely been displaced by Faith... Which can be expressed as Love or Hate. Conversely... Faith can be undermined and will dissipate... (Often replaced by fear)... If one does not ruthlessly safeguard it... And let's in the world with it's Hollow Philosophies. And to address the specifics in his post... Usually there are no definitive answers about God... Believers simply accept a large element of Mystery. rm+ [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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#8
09-17-2005, 04:34 PM
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Re: The Anguish of True Believers
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand I also wonder about those who completely believe there is such a God. How do they deal with the knowledge that 95% or so of their fellow human beings have a horrible fate in store for them? [/ QUOTE ] The only way I can see thinking something like this would be if you believe that even hell is a thousand times better than life on earth, albeit without Gods presence.
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#9
09-17-2005, 04:41 PM
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Re: The Anguish of True Believers
Yes, there are plenty of Christians who are horrified at some of those thoughts. That's why you see so many people drop everything and become missionaries to far flung places, and others make other large sacrifices for evangelism. They want to give those people a chance to escape torment.
Of course, some people believe different details. If you think a 10 minute conversation can "save" someone, then you can get a lot done just by knocking on a lot of doors. My parents do, and do. I'm pretty sure Jack Chick thinks a person who reads one of his tracts, and honestly follows the back page, will be saved from it all. So these people take comfort in the people they've contacted, and the people contacted by those they've contacted, and so on. It's amazing the kind of abuse some of these people are willing to tolerate while going out and doing this stuff, too. It's clear that they really do beleive it all, and they really are scared of what will happen to people who don't hear about it.
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#10
09-17-2005, 04:50 PM
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Re: Faith and Fear Displace Each Other
The idea that men are inherently evil is downright ignorant. Equally as ignorant is the belief that men are inherently good. Men are born men. They are a blank slate - a 'tablata rasa.' It is the choices a man makes that determine him as 'good' or 'evil.'
And yet these terms are ambiguous and vague. What exactly does 'good' mean? What does 'evil' mean? These words are connotations for either ends of a spectrum in a set of moral codes. But morality is not an absolute. Men are not born moral or immoral - they are born unmoral. Morality is a man-made invention and is adopted through one's culture. A man born and left for dead in the wild, never having encountered other humans, and somehow surviving, would have no concept of morality. He would act for the moment, for his immediate pleasure, for his immediate benefit, and would never consider his actions as either right or wrong. Those concepts would be foreign to him. Men being born inherently anything is an ignorant claim. Saying so implies that their course of action has already been set for them, that their life is a sequence of events that has already been pre-determined, and that implies that men do not have free will. It implies pre-destination. A man is in control of his own destiny through the choices given to him by free will.
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