Was this fishy play or Solid play in a big pot?

#1 11-14-2005, 07:13 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
[color=#666666]2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises, [color=#666666]1 fold, Button calls, [color=#CC3333]SB 3-bets, [color=#666666]1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

At this point I did not have a read on the SB, but I thought I needed to call. AJo is a hand I don't like to play very much, but I do not like to limp with it when I play it.

Flop: (19 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](6 players)
[color=#CC3333]SB bets, [color=#CC3333]UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, [color=#CC3333]SB 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Ok, the pot was huge and I had an overcard, gutshot, and backdoor flush draw. I figured it was worth about 4.5-5 outs. I don't know if raising to protect my hand was the best play, I was ready to dump on the turn if I faced a bet and raise .

Turn: (15.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players)
[color=#CC3333]SB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Ok getting close to 20 to 1 I had to call. I know my chances were grim but the pot was to big to flop IMO. At this point I figured the SB had a queen or overpair and there was a flush draw between the BB and MP1.

River: (19.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players)
[color=#CC3333]SB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

I think this was my mistake, I felt the SB was married to his hand and the UTG had something he was going to call with, but I froze up and called out of surprise. I am sure I made a mistake here and should have raised for value, but was not sure at the time. I was most likly caught in the moment.
Final Pot: 22.50 BB

Was this calling down a fishy move or do you think that this is a good example of calling down in a big pot with grim odds and may be drawing dead (although unlikly, BC the UTG would have been raising if he had JT.)

milesdyson · #2 11-14-2005, 07:16 PM

convert to 2+2 and raise the river.

flop seems okay but looking at #2CCCCCC @333333F WOWOWOWO makes it hard to tell

Aaron W. · #3 11-14-2005, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, the pot was huge and I had an overcard, gutshot, and backdoor flush draw. I figured it was worth about 4.5-5 outs. I don't know if raising to protect my hand was the best play, I was ready to dump on the turn if I faced a bet and raise .

[/ QUOTE ]

What hand are you protecting?

[ QUOTE ]
Ok getting close to 20 to 1 I had to call. I know my chances were grim but the pot was to big to flop IMO. At this point I figured the SB had a queen or overpair and there was a flush draw between the BB and MP1.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question of folding isn't a matter of opinion. It's a purely mathematical one.

I would have folded on the flop. One your gutshot outs are tainted, if you hit your gutshot on the turn, you're still hoping a flush doesn't pop up ont he river, I don't trust your one card J-high BDFD, and your overcard is likely useless.

bozlax · #4 11-14-2005, 07:25 PM

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At this point I did not have a read on the SB, but I thought I needed to call.

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Preflop: all I'm going to say is that there's no situation I can imagine where you should be folding after you put any amount of money in preflop when it's only one back to you.

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, the pot was huge and I had an overcard, gutshot, and backdoor flush draw. I figured it was worth about 4.5-5 outs. I don't know if raising to protect my hand was the best play, I was ready to dump on the turn if I faced a bet and raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Flop: You also have a backdoor straight draw to the nuts. You had plenty to peel, here, even if it was capped behind you (as long as you can hold on to all 3 opponents). I don't think you can raise for value, tho, so getting to the next street as cheaply as possible is going to be your best plan.

Turn: you gotta call figuring at least 3 of your tens are likely to be good.

River: you made your hand, but you're overcalling UTG+2. Otoh, you're closing the action so, yeah, call. Raising would be a spew, as I don't want to be 3-bet by KJ or A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Don't reopen the betting with a vulnerable hand.

NH

milesdyson · #5 11-14-2005, 07:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raising would be a spew, as I don't want to be 3-bet by KJ or A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Don't reopen the betting with a vulnerable hand.

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according to my hand reading skills, no one has those hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

#6 11-14-2005, 07:57 PM

The way I see it, it looks like you actually have odds to call down the whole way looking for the T. I'd raise this river for value. SB has been aggressive the whole way, probably with AA, AK, or another big hand, I'm not putting him on 2 clubs. UTG+2 would of raised with the flush, so I think your good here far too often not to raise.

numeri · #7 11-14-2005, 08:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (19 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (15.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (19.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ahhh... much better. Convert using 2+2 format next time.

Man, that sucks. I think you're fine through the turn. I don't know about the river. I'm tempted to say raise, but then I don't really want to call a 3-bet. Your call is probably fine. I'm interested to read what others say.

#8 11-14-2005, 08:07 PM

raise river

otherwise fine....

Redd · #9 11-14-2005, 09:08 PM

Raise river.

It's close, but I think your flop #CC3333 should be a #CB3333 too.