WPT STARS Hype or great talents?

[Smoothcall]

Do you think the wpt poker stars we see on television are really great poker talents or just guys that you see on television alot because they play more tournies than the average tournament pro. And the real question i have is if they are that much better than average pro players how did they obtain this? Is it somthing you are born with? Or is it more of learning a style of play that beats these big field tournaments that they learned through talking with other top wpt players that helped them with the style. For instance Josh A. I have heard him say Eric Lindgren helped him with his game and owes it all to him. This is how i believe it works. They are not more talented than the average pro player who knows how to play poker. But they are given a playing style that all the top players know. Like Daniel N. Phil I, Allen Cunningham were all buddies in the past and discussed strategy. Would they have been great had they not been informed on a certain playing style or objective that they all follow as a general starting block(like AGGRESSION is must to be top tounrament player, but more in detail)

Ok so basically what i am saying is i believe that the top tournament players are not born with super elite talent or even have super elite talent. But more they learned a certain playing style that works through discussion with other expereinced players. Another example is Tuan Lee. Barry helps him. Probably tells him stuff like always be aggressive(obviously in much greater detail) and all of a sudden is a superstar. And also obviously these guys play many more tournies than the average pro which also gives them many more chances to make big score and become famous.

So who agrees with me? And who think s that i'm wrong and they are actually born with super elite talent? Btw i think there can be an exception where a few men have extroadinary talent that maybe they were born with a gift. But for most i believe my theory to be right. And there are many players that if they were given the formula would do well also given a little experience.

So what you guys think? Let the flaming begin!

[drewjustdrew]

I agree with your hypotheses to some extent. I think they have adopted a good strategy first, but then they have fine-tuned it with lots of playing experience. One of the reasons they seem to do much better than average, I think, is that most good poker playing entrants don't have much deep stack tourney experience, and have not adopted better strategies than "tight-aggressive".

Unknown, good players also may have different theories on when to open up because they may not be focused 100% on winning like these other "name" guys seem to be. They may value winning 50% and cashing 50%, so some decisions are made a little differently, and less advantageously to get them on TV.

[Smoothcall]

Yes i agree 100 percent!

[Vincent Lepore]

"Talent" is the most misunderstood or maybe not understood human characteristic that there is. Just what is talent and if there are varying degrees of it for different human endeavor's is I believe where this discussion should be going.

There are amny grat music somposers, Mozart, Beethoven, etc among the great Classical composers. Reading and writing music can be taught to just about anyone but can anyone that learns to write music accomplish the things in composing that a Mozart did? I don't think so. I believe that there is such a thing as talent. I'm not sure what it is or how to go about identifying it or how much one needs of it to be great at something. Some might say that this talent thing is just a cop out for those that are to lazy or unmotivated to succeed. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe all one needs is the motivation. Maybe that's true talent. I don't know. But I do not believe that one can learn to be a great poker player or a great tournament poker player, something different from the former, without some internal force or desire or understanding guiding their actions

Vince

[Hotel Detect]

I believe that learned skills and talent are two separate categories, both of which are essential to being successful on the WPT. The strategy part is what can be worked on, and it certainly helps if you are befriended by a successful tournament pro with whom you can discuss strategy.

Talent on the other hand is also essential and i believe stems from innate ability - the most important of which is perception of human behavior at the table. I believe that people that have always been sensative to the behavior of others, ie noticing the subtle rudeness of a waitress that the others in your party do not pick up on. I think that this skill cannot be learned necessarily (beyond text book study of tells). Anyway so i think it is both, and i also think its about 50/50.

[MeanGreenTT]

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I'm not sure what it is or how to go about identifying it or how much one needs of it to be great at something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow.....lmfao

[SumZero]

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So what you guys think? Let the flaming begin!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are framing the question in a way that can lead you and others to make the mistake of catagorical thinking.

Nature or nurture?

Evolution or creation science?

Either I have the straight flush or I'm bluffing.

Framing things as either-or questions causes people to evaluate things as if A is more likely than B then A is true while if B is more likely than A then B is true. This is as opposed to thinking that aspects of both A and B may be true, or the truth may be C.

So what am I getting at?

The people who appear to be stars on the WPT are very likely a combination between great talents and great hype (lucky) and great environment (friends with other good players who they can talk things over with).

I mean why is the average 2+2 poster a better poker player than a randomly selected poker player? Because they seek out more information and because they think things over away from the table and can discuss with people and get different points of view. If you had the opportunity to talk poker strategy regularly with top players you would undoubtably improve your game (case in point: Ben Affleck). Who knows what you'd max out at in terms of skill? Maybe you'd be world class. Maybe you'd "merely" move to the point where you could regularly cash in local $100 tournaments. But even if you were world class in skill you may never reach the final table in a WPT or WSOP event in the next 5 years as luck plays a huge roll in it too.

A number of people recommend that if you want to get better in poker the best thing you can do is make friends with one or two other serious poker players who play at your levels and all talk about hands and situations as you all move up. A number of the famous players have done that and reached the world class status. A number of 2+2ers have had success with that, even if not all of them are destined to become world class.