Big pot with TT on QQ board. - Page 3

xorbie · #1 11-22-2005, 01:02 AM

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Hmm, by the way, aren't you just folding out worse hands (barring JJ) and letting better hands get your money here? He might fold a 2 aswell but that's pretty much it

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What Q or 2 checks here? I mean, I'm obviously calling.

#2 11-22-2005, 01:14 AM

Reraise on the flop and then if he goes over you fold. He has to turn over a monster to call you on the flop or raise you on the flop.

ajmargarine · #3 11-22-2005, 01:23 AM

Hard to evaluate the flop in a vaccuum. You went with your gut at the table and that is fine. I don't get the river push. I guess your trying to get him to lay down the hands that beat you 2x, 77, JJ, KK-AA. I suppose the first three are possible, the last two seem unlikely given preflop play. And if you have the better hand, you are missing value as he's not calling you without a queen, whereas he may call a small river donkbet with hands you beat.

Riposte · #4 11-22-2005, 01:29 AM

It's noteworthy that he folded to your preflop reraise in a previous hand, but are these aggressive players really the type that we want to try this move on? Isn't it better if it's a tight-weak guy?

xorbie · #5 11-22-2005, 01:36 AM

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It's noteworthy that he folded to your preflop reraise in a previous hand, but are these aggressive players really the type that we want to try this move on? Isn't it better if it's a tight-weak guy?

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Huh? The point of the preflop hand was that this guy is willing to steal, and isn't donking around with power hands preflop. After his preflop call I put him on a PP or some decent big cards/decent ace. I think JJ+ reraises here given how aggro he is. On the flop, his checkraise tells me he very likely doesn't have a Q, but my call tells him I'm kinda afraid. I think the turn I should push, because the pot is big enough that protecting from a possible 6 outer is a worthy goal, but at no point in this hand did I really think I was behind his range.

soah · #6 11-22-2005, 01:38 AM

What hands make a mistake against you on the river? After taking a glance at the stack sizes it's not as bad as it looks at first, but I still don't get it. Normally you bluff if you can't win by checking... representing a hand that's just a little bit better than what you actually hold is a recipe for making -EV bets. Did you actually expect him to call with something worse? Or you were making this (small?!) bet to somehow move him off of exactly AA/KK/JJ?

xorbie · #7 11-22-2005, 02:24 AM

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What hands make a mistake against you on the river? After taking a glance at the stack sizes it's not as bad as it looks at first, but I still don't get it. Normally you bluff if you can't win by checking... representing a hand that's just a little bit better than what you actually hold is a recipe for making -EV bets. Did you actually expect him to call with something worse? Or you were making this (small?!) bet to somehow move him off of exactly AA/KK/JJ?

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Bet is $80, pot is $250... you don't think 88 or 99 can find a call here? I think I am behind after this action just about never.

soah · #8 11-22-2005, 02:43 AM

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What hands make a mistake against you on the river? After taking a glance at the stack sizes it's not as bad as it looks at first, but I still don't get it. Normally you bluff if you can't win by checking... representing a hand that's just a little bit better than what you actually hold is a recipe for making -EV bets. Did you actually expect him to call with something worse? Or you were making this (small?!) bet to somehow move him off of exactly AA/KK/JJ?

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Bet is $80, pot is $250... you don't think 88 or 99 can find a call here? I think I am behind after this action just about never.

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I'd be amazed to see them call.

I played a somewhat similar hand last week. I'd raised to $14 UTG with KK, and it was folded to the BB who called. Notes from a previous session say "very tight" and so far in this session that's seemed to have been the case as well. My image is basically TAG. Flop is QQ7 rainbow and she leads right out and I call pretty quickly. Turn is a rag and she fires out again about 4/5 pot or so. I call again. River is another queen and she checks. I can find absolutely no value in betting here and check behind. She shows 65s. My read was that her two most likely hands were 77 or nothing, and she doesn't call with either of them.

Bukem_ · #9 11-22-2005, 03:06 AM

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My read was that her two most likely hands were 77 or nothing, and she doesn't call with either of them.

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I push all in every time in that spot. No way are you beat given that action, sometimes tight players play mid pockets this way, plus even if they do fold they get no info about how you play your big pairs.

thatpfunk · #10 11-22-2005, 03:57 AM

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My read was that her two most likely hands were 77 or nothing, and she doesn't call with either of them.

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I push all in every time in that spot. No way are you beat given that action, sometimes tight players play mid pockets this way, plus even if they do fold they get no info about how you play your big pairs.

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If he's an aggro player who I am going to see on a regular basis I would want them to think I can't fold my big pairs.