bankroll adjustment for whoring?

[o0mr_bill0o]

So since I've been back in school I don't exactly have a lot of time to play, so I've been doing about 90-100% of my playing when i'm whoring, and it seems to me that clearly when you're whoring that much, your risk of ruin is much much lower, and you probably need a much lower bankroll. I haven't dipped below 300BB in well over 6 months, for instance. I don't feel that it's because i've been running particularly well, just because every few hundred hands I get an influx of cash from the bonus. So, it got me thinking that there's gotta be some adjustment you can make by figuring out the % of time you whore, the limit you generally play at, and the average raked hand requirement. anyone out there have any ideas as to how to make these adjustments?

[Robert Ezzo]

Actually, I find it very easy to handle this - money I earn from bonuses doesn't count toward my 300BB "bankroll" figures. I keep track of my winnings and bonus money seperately, and only move up in limits when my winnings exceeds the next level's 300BB figure. Makes it harder to move up, but I see too many people move up quickly because the bonus money gives them an artificial sense that they are winning players, when they aren't.

[SlyGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I find it very easy to handle this - money I earn from bonuses doesn't count toward my 300BB "bankroll" figures. I keep track of my winnings and bonus money seperately, and only move up in limits when my winnings exceeds the next level's 300BB figure. Makes it harder to move up, but I see too many people move up quickly because the bonus money gives them an artificial sense that they are winning players, when they aren't.

[/ QUOTE ]

How so? If you are using Poker Tracker it will tell you if you are winning or not independent of any bonuses you have received.

[bigalt]

yeah but your neteller account tells you you're cleaning up.

[grimel]

Because with bonus money it's possible to have a BR for the next level (or two) without having nearly enough hands for PT to give semi-valid stats.

As example, via PT and my BR I can easily handle 2/4 (I'm beating 1/2 and have the cash). I'd lose my tail at 2/4. I should be losing my tail at 1/2 (except for 2 prop sessions at Interpoker with morons I would be). I'm comfortable (i.e. I win) at .50/1. I'm way over bankrolled. So, I keep some in Neteller for whoring and I keep some here and there so I can readily play multiple sites with less grief.

[o0mr_bill0o]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I find it very easy to handle this - money I earn from bonuses doesn't count toward my 300BB "bankroll" figures. I keep track of my winnings and bonus money seperately, and only move up in limits when my winnings exceeds the next level's 300BB figure. Makes it harder to move up, but I see too many people move up quickly because the bonus money gives them an artificial sense that they are winning players, when they aren't.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're missing the point. at the point i'm at right now, i'm not moving up levels for a while, so i'm just collecting cash. as such, my bankroll only exists to ensure that i don't have to put more money in - to lower as much as is feasible the risk of ruin. due to the constant influx of bonus money, my risk of ruin is quite different than it would be without bonuses. what is this difference? maybe i should have asked this in the probability forum...

[Robert Ezzo]

I didn't realize you were asking about a RoR calculation.... you're right, that is probably far better suited to the Probability forum. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I was answering what I thought was your question, which was that I see many people who deposit $300, play a bunch of bonuses off over a couple of months, and have moved themselves up to 3/6 because they "have the 300BB bankroll" but are wickedly inexperienced and get burned fairly badly. I am like you in that bonus money helps create a large buffer for me to cushion downturns that happen, and also provides the money I take out for other expenses, to take care of my wife, etc. I advocate to nearly all aspiring players to not consider bonus money part of your bankroll per se but to gather 300-400BB *at the current level they are at* before moving up, which provides the proper bankroll for the next level of play, but with the added benefit of having gotten a decent # of hands under their belt.

But obviously you are more interested in how the exra bonus money you are accumulating is affecting your RoR, which is definitely not something I can answer.

[pzhon]

For bankroll purposes, you can just add the bonuses to your win rate. The 300 BB suggestion that some people worship assumes a particular win rate (and variance). If your win rate is lower, you need a larger bankroll. If your win rate is higher, you don't need 300 BB for the same level of security. Doubling your win rate cuts the bankroll requirement in half, and vice versa.

At the 3 Cryptologic sites paying 5 GBP/table hour (about $9.50), you may get a boost of 6+ BB/100 at $1-$2, greatly reducing the bankroll necessary to play $1-$2. I believe half-decent players only need a bankroll of about $150 to play for these bonuses.