Should I make the call?

[capone0]

all im saying is yes you made the right call but it might have not been the right play. you won the money which is good, but you knew the leading better wasn't that strong which isn't a bad thing. thing is, how bout the other 2 people in the hand? What other things could they be chasing. They could have had a 5, or better hand. All I'm saying is I don't know if this the right call on the flop seeing that you could be drawing dead.

[booyabob]

I hear you alec,

I realize the preflop call was probably off. at the same time. i was way up on the table and could afford to be a little loose in the situation.

regardless. sometimes we price ourselves into situations where a call makes sense and you must play from where you are, rather than where you should be (folded).

This was one such situation. I felt that with the call there i could really cash in if i hit and if i missed, i could get myself out for nothing more if a more freightening card came.

Brad

[bilbo-san]

[ QUOTE ]
I hear you alec,

I realize the preflop call was probably off. at the same time. i was way up on the table and could afford to be a little loose in the situation.


[/ QUOTE ]

How you can ever make money long-term with this kind of thinking is beyond me.

1) Every new hand is a blank slate. When you make a call that is -EV, you lose the same amount of money every time, regardless if you've been winning or losing recently.

2) Every time you get involved in a pot in NL, you can lose your whole stack. And by the way, if you say that can't happen to you here, then your implied odds must be a lot worse than you claim -- if you're not willing to risk your stack, you won't win anyone elses, either.

[ QUOTE ]

This was one such situation. I felt that with the call there i could really cash in if i hit and if i missed, i could get myself out for nothing more if a more freightening card came.


[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true, why not fold the flop, which also obviously missed you? You're drawing dead to soooo many hands that both the raiser and one of the callers could have. Yet you seemed to really want to keep playing. This looks to me like your self-discipline is a lot lower than you believe it to be.

Also, I'd be more worried about what to do when the flop hits you. What do you do if you flop a K or Q, and the pf-raiser bets at you and someone calls? You certainly can't fold. Calling is probably also bad. But you may be behind and drawing dead or to 3 outs. Maybe you are much better at reading opponents pre-flop play than I am, but I'd rather not put myself in the position of having to make this decision in the first place.

Just muck pre-flop.

[capone0]

It's funny how you can put the raiser on 1 hand. AJ. That's it. QJ and KJ would have you in big trouble after that flop. So would JJ, AA, KK, QQ, etc. I usually can put raisers in my home game and at the casino (tougher online) into a couple of hands. I've known to have been wrong many times. Honestly your PAIR drawing and the only other draw you have is a backdoor runner runner straight draw (1 in 20). I guess your "implied" odds are good, but not really as you said before the person is short stacked and as I've said before you don't have any idea if your odds are good. Honestly drawing on a paired board to pair outs is a very weak play.

[EStreet20]

You should have folded preflop, you should also fold right now.

[EStreet20]

[ QUOTE ]
i was the certain bettor had the jack, most likely AJ as i know her to not preflop raise without a strong ace (especially when she continued betting). So no way did she have a 5 unless it was pocket fives (in which case she wouldn't bet.

Turns out I was right and the Q hit the turn. Sure it was lucky, but at the point of the flop call, it seemed the implied odds were in my favor as I was certain my KQ were both safe overcards.

Should also mentioned, she only had another $15 or so behind her and also i knew that three callers would slow her betting down. (anyone with a five would have raised the turn so I know I'd get the necessary info for 6 dollars).



[/ QUOTE ]

I'll play with you any time. Awful call, pure luck.

[Klepton]

if you want to better your game, check out the NL forums, and later on you will see why both the pf call and flop call were wrong

[Weatherhead03]

Calling PF is loose and will lose you money in the long run. Calling flop is also bad..you are behind so many hands right now and you cannot count your over cards for outs either..you could be up against AK, AQ, AJ, not to mention AA, QQ, or the bad JJ which will have you drawing near dead.

[Mike Cuneo]

[ QUOTE ]
all im saying is yes you made the right call but it might have not been the right play. you won the money which is good

[/ QUOTE ]

This is nonsense. The preflop call is bad and the flop call is horrible. Just because you won this pot now you may be more inclined to draw to overcards when the pot odds aren't giving you the right price. Just fold preflop. Or at least wait until you hit your marginal hand hard to push it after the flop.

[Sykes]

Never call a raise with KQ.

This information will save you thousands.