My Best Ever Lay Down! - Page 2

djoyce003 · #11 03-17-2005, 08:43 PM

Here is an interesting laydown I made.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, MP 3-bets, Button calls, SB caps, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (17 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, MP folds, Button calls, SB raises, UTG calls, Button calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Button folds.

River: (13.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has Ks Kc (one pair, kings).
SB has As Ac (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: SB wins 15.50 BB.

TryingHard · #12 03-17-2005, 08:46 PM

Ok I've edited the post best I can. Like I said before I'm not gonna be the world's greatest forum poster.

Anyway, Yes I know to Raise KK and cap KK whenever wherever.. But this was truely the loosest game ever another thing you PRO's forgot is the whole MIXING your game up?? I mean are you seriously telling me NONE of you have ever LIMPED with KK before???

My advice may not be great, my post's may not be great, my poker may not be great, but you know what, I'm never gonna put people down like you guys did [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

pokerstudAA · #13 03-17-2005, 08:54 PM

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? I mean are you seriously telling me NONE of you have ever LIMPED with KK before???

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I am not proud of it, got therapy, did the 12 steps, and have raised KK everytime for 125 days since those dark times......

CallMeIshmael · #14 03-17-2005, 08:56 PM

"It's funny, because its bigger than a normal hat" - Turd Furguson

crunchy1 · #15 03-17-2005, 08:58 PM

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My advice may not be great, my post's may not be great, my poker may not be great, but you know what, I'm never gonna put people down like you guys did [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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I don't think anyone here is putting you down. Read posts on this board and you'll find that these are pretty standard responses to bad posts. It's not anything personal. It's simply sarcastic requests to post in a way that instigates good commentary.

Don't be afraid to post again. Just do so using good form. Check out this sticky post in the micro limits forum for some tips.

bilbo-san · #16 03-17-2005, 08:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok I've edited the post best I can. Like I said before I'm not gonna be the world's greatest forum poster.

Anyway, Yes I know to Raise KK and cap KK whenever wherever.. But this was truely the loosest game ever another thing you PRO's forgot is the whole MIXING your game up?? I mean are you seriously telling me NONE of you have ever LIMPED with KK before???

My advice may not be great, my post's may not be great, my poker may not be great, but you know what, I'm never gonna put people down like you guys did [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I am seriously telling you I have never limped in the big blind in an unraised pot with KK. The only time I would limp with them is in an aggressive game in early position, where I believe someone behind me will raise, so I can 3-bet.

You claim to never put anyone down but pepper your statement with all kinds of sarcasm about us PRO's. Please.

Oh, and by the way, why the hell would you want anyone to FOLD preflop when you hold KK? Do you not understand that you will win the pot more often than they will?

Here's an idea I stole from another post on this topic (I forget who said it and I'm too lazy to look it up): The next time you get KK or AA, just raise and show everyone your cards so that they will all fold and you'll never get sucked out on.

TryingHard · #17 03-17-2005, 09:01 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
? I mean are you seriously telling me NONE of you have ever LIMPED with KK before???

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not proud of it, got therapy, did the 12 steps, and have raised KK everytime for 125 days since those dark times......

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok you win, Sign me up for therapy..

riffraff · #18 03-17-2005, 09:08 PM

Should raise pre-flop with your KK.. yes you are building a pot, but you also have odds to flop a set of kings.

Once you raise that spot you want to bet the flop. Giving infinite odds to draws is worse than giving them correct odds to call. Check-raising is a good plan too.. just didn't work here.

You didn't mention if one of your kings was a diamond, which would have given you a backdoor flush draw as well. I'm guessing you didn't have one since you folded on the turn.

A lot of people will bet a flush draw on a flop like this. Since they didn't I'm not sure why you are so scared that your hand is no good.. but anyways the fold seems pretty weak given lack of any kind of action to this point.

You said your read on the SB was that he could be playing any kind of hand here, and that you've been playing with him for a month now. Did you put him on AA?

Couldn't he ave A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? Are you telling me if he bets out on the flop you don't raise it immediately?

.......

My best fold happened at a 4-8 game live. I'm on the button with AA and it's a loose game. There are a couple limpers when MP (local) raises, I 3-bet and 4 of us see the flop which comes 55T.

It's checked to me and I bet, the EP's call and the local motions to the dealer a thumbs up.. saying "raise it up".

Now the only hand which he could have to beat me here is TT (he's not raising 55 pre-flop). I'm normally not going to worry about anyone having the nuts here. However, the way he made this check-raise hit me inside. This included many things: his body language, the way he almost wanted to avoid the verbage, and the fact I had played with him for several sessions and had a good idea where he was most of the time. I think for a couple seconds and fold. The other 2 in the pot fold as well. He smiles and turns over TT.

pokerstudAA · #19 03-17-2005, 09:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
? I mean are you seriously telling me NONE of you have ever LIMPED with KK before???

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not proud of it, got therapy, did the 12 steps, and have raised KK everytime for 125 days since those dark times......

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok you win, Sign me up for therapy..

[/ QUOTE ]

You signed yourself up for therapy on 12/11/04. You made the first step....now take the next - pay attention and learn. There are alot of helpful people here, many sacastic, a few lunatics, and a few a-holes.

Welcome to the Forums.

crunchy1 · #20 03-17-2005, 09:32 PM

Disclaimer: None of the following is intended as an attack. Take it as the best serious, honest advice I have to give you.

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Ok this is my Best ever Lay Down, Id like to here your views on this hand and perhaps any great lay downs you've made yourself.

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Personally I'm surprised you didn't get flamed by at least 10 seperate posters on this line alone.

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Ok I'm on Pacific Poker $5-$10 as usual, In the Big Blind on a very loose table I look down and see KK with 5 limpers, now I no if I raise not one of these players will fold,

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You've certainly got the best hand here - not raising with the best hand is BAD. Your raise isn't intended to get people to fold - it's intended to build a pot with the best hand pre-flop and a hand that is a favorite to win (even against 5 loose opponents) at showdown. Also - if they're not going to fold now, they're probably not going to fold later either - why not juice up the pot with the best hand.

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all I'll be doing is giving them better pot odds later on, and its harder enough getting them outta the pot if its small, if the pots big I'm never gonna beat all 5 of them with KK.

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I'll repeat: If they're not going to fold now, they're probably not going to fold later either. There are plenty of posts on that address exactly why this thinking is wrong. If you are thinking like this, with any regularity, you really need to go back through the last 5-6 pages of posts on here and start reading.

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So I check flop brings 9d5dJh not a great flop for me as now if I bet any 2diamonds will call me, any 67,78,QT,KT,J rag, 9, and probably the 5 will call me, so I check hoping for a check raise to knock a few out, but now everyone checks...

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Letting this get checked through is pretty bad. Nothing like letting all those hands you were worried about see another card for free. Lead the flop and hope that someone raises giving you a chance to three bet and really make them pay to draw. If you would've raised PF a bet here would've likely folded many hands that you want to fold (even in a loose game).

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...and the turn brings a horrible 7d The board now looks like this 9d 5d Jh 7d, one of these 5 players now has me beat, I'm gonna check this but wait the Small Blind bets out, this guy is a real Loose, Passive Player, I mean he was they guy who cracked my JJ to runner runner straight earlier,

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This is called "monsters under the bed" syndrome. Just because a player drew out on your big PP earlier doesn't mean that you should never bet and raise with them anymore!?

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he chases everything but never bets out without a hand, he's either got the Flush, or at least two pair and even if he hasnt I'm sure someone else has got a piece of this board, it was only my Big Blind $5 invested, I FOLD.

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One part of the hand that you may had actually played correctly. I think a lot of 2+2ers would be willing to let this hand go when this bet comes from a player like you describe (then again some may also raise!? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]). The main thing is that you shouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

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One player calls and the River is Qs board is now 9d 5d Jh 7d Qs, horrible board for me but as so many players folded I'm not sure I've done the correct thing, but my read on the Small Blind is pretty good, I mean I've played with this guy for around a month now.

The Small Blind Bets out again and the only other player in the pot calls.

Showdown time Small Blind Shows wait for it Pocket Aces...this is probably the best lay down I've ever made

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Then you probably haven't made enough laydowns.

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due to the non aggression shown throughout the hand, geez I got lucky there holding KK and I didnt lose a penny,

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If it was that lucky then wouldn't it be the "luckiest laydown ever" and not the "best laydown ever"?? Also you lost your $5 blind - just because you had to post it doesn't mean it wasn't your money.

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I mean your forced to put in the $5 blind so that doesnt even count...

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I don't even know how to respond to this!? So basically you're saying that your money doesn't count. I would not believe you if you tell me you're a winning player.

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After that I played a pretty good game ending up around $200..

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Lucky you - and if the rest of your game is based on the premises you've presented in this post - then I do mean LUCKY.

I has been proven over time by many people who know much better than me that passive play like this will not win money in the long run. If you play in this manner with any regularity I suggest you search these forums for resources (there are plenty of posts already) on how to improve your game because it does need improvement (not to mention that these forums may well be the #1 resource).