Backfired slowplays

6-Max Full Tilt $50NL. The players are bad and routinely overplay their hands. Against these types of players, do you think it's better to let them shoot themselves or to get aggressive?

Full Tilt Poker Game #353369414: Table Ontario (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:34:44 ET - 2005/12/25
Seat 1: <font color="red"> Hero </font> ($53.40)
Seat 2: BITEYOASS ($97.50)
Seat 3: whitemike26 ($12.80)
Seat 4: smd17 ($11.35)
Seat 5: james sargent ($30.95)
Seat 6: tsac19 ($25.65)
smd17 posts the small blind of $0.25
james sargent posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to <font color="red"> Hero </font> [A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
tsac19 folds
<font color="red"> Hero </font> raises to $2
3 folds.
james sargent raises to $3.50
<font color="red"> Hero </font> calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]
james sargent bets $0.50
<font color="red"> Hero </font> calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] [K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
james sargent bets $15
<font color="red"> Hero </font> calls $15
*** RIVER *** [A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] [T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
james sargent checks
<font color="red"> Hero </font> bets $11.95

I think the river bet is a bad idea, but other than that, how is it? Preflop, I don't want to reraise and then get forced to call a big bet.

Hand 2:
Full Tilt Poker Game #353410671: Table Ontario (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:08:10 ET - 2005/12/25
Seat 1: <font color="red"> Hero </font> ($41.55)
Seat 2: BITEYOASS ($64.50)
Seat 3: whitemike26 ($23.95)
Seat 5: james sargent ($67.65)
Seat 6: tsac19 ($60.25)
<font color="red"> Hero </font> posts the small blind of $0.25
BITEYOASS posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to <font color="red"> Hero </font> [K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
james sargent calls $0.50
tsac19 raises to $1.50
<font color="red"> Hero </font> raises to $5.50
2 folds.
tsac19 calls $4
*** FLOP *** [J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
<font color="red"> Hero </font> checks
tsac19 checks
*** TURN *** [J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]
<font color="red"> Hero </font> bets $6
tsac19 raises to $12
<font color="red"> Hero </font> raises to $29
tsac19 raises to $54.75, and is all in
<font color="red"> Hero </font> calls $7.05, and is all in


Given the players, I think only the river bet in hand 1 was my mistake in these two hands. Thoughts?

[Vuron00]

What did you put Villain on in hand #1. The re-raise should limit him to only a few hands AA-JJ and AK. The .50 bet into the $7 pot after the flop seems like a weak player testing whether you have an Ace that beats his PP. Slow playing here lets too many draws see free cards on the turn with both a flush draw and straight draws on the board. I'd have raised this turn.

The $15 turn bet after the low flop bet makes me think he hit his set of Kings and is afraid of the flush and straight and wants to take it down here. Either way, every hand but QQ that he would have re-raised with now has you beat. After the river card, all these hands have you beat. Check the river, but you already know that.

Hand #2... I'd only check this flop if I had a read on villain and knew he'd fire at the pot to check-raise him. Villain raised preflop, so chances are he will a PP or hit part of this flop. If he has a PP, you're just giving him a chance to make a set. Most players at this level won't fire with a PP with big overs on the board and a re-raiser. If he hit part of the flop, he'll call your bet, anyway. Just fire.

[ QUOTE ]
What did you put Villain on in hand #1. The re-raise should limit him to only a few hands AA-JJ and AK. The .50 bet into the $7 pot after the flop seems like a weak player testing whether you have an Ace that beats his PP. Slow playing here lets too many draws see free cards on the turn with both a flush draw and straight draws on the board. I'd have raised this turn.

The $15 turn bet after the low flop bet makes me think he hit his set of Kings and is afraid of the flush and straight and wants to take it down here. Either way, every hand but QQ that he would have re-raised with now has you beat. After the river card, all these hands have you beat. Check the river, but you already know that.

Hand #2... I'd only check this flop if I had a read on villain and knew he'd fire at the pot to check-raise him. Villain raised preflop, so chances are he will a PP or hit part of this flop. If he has a PP, you're just giving him a chance to make a set. Most players at this level won't fire with a PP with big overs on the board and a re-raiser. If he hit part of the flop, he'll call your bet, anyway. Just fire.

[/ QUOTE ]

For hand 1, going back and reading it, I think it was pretty misplayed. A better line would be to raise the flop. I guess from his underbet, I figured him for a smaller pocket pair. On the turn, why would he overbet the pot with a set of kings? Something that strong would likely slow down or at least bet less than $15. I figured him for QQ at this point. No idea why I bet the river, that was horrid.

For hand two, even though I give him a chance to hit the set, I think he'll put enough money in when he doesn't hit for a slowplay to be the most +EV.

[2PAUL2]

hand 1 pf is fine. you gotta raise the flop though. he could easily be on a flush draw/straight draw when he min bets. after just calling the flop you shoulda shoved the turn. check the river.

hand 2 bet the flop. as played the turn is fine.

paul

[Fallen Hero]

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 pf is fine. you gotta raise the flop though. he could easily be on a flush draw/straight draw when he min bets. after just calling the flop you shoulda shoved the turn. check the river.

hand 2 bet the flop. as played the turn is fine.

paul

[/ QUOTE ]

not having a read I can't even begin to imagine a hand that you beat calling the push (maybe AJ but generally people don't reraise AJ pf)

bet the focking flops