Where's the bet?

You have ~9 outs, bet on the flop.

[Aaron_]

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You have ~9 outs, bet on the flop.

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Even if I do have 9 clean outs, this wouldn't be for value. I'm almost certainly not peeling one off for free on the turn with TAG in late. Right?

[2+2 wannabe]

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Whooo..that preflop call is pretty damn awful.

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you're getting awesome odds with a decent multiway hand - it might not be standard but it's definitely not awful

it's probably -EV to fold this compared to calling

All this talk about postflop competency is true, but even if you're god's gift to postflop play, how can it be profitable to put yourself in this spot, out of position against 3 to act after you including a PFR?

I admit my postflop skills are still very much in the works, so why would I try to swim upstream with this hand when I can wait for better spot to put in my money and use whatever postflop competency I may have.

Put me on the BUTTON with J9o 5-handed and then I'm willing to pay for a flop.

[ArturiusX]

This is a very good question.

As you play more hands, you get a feel as to how much a hand is worth, what % of flops you'll like, and what you can exploit.

If you look at the stats, J9o is going to produce top pair x amount of times, a good draw, a weak draw, and maybe a combination. Because the pot will be large for only 1 bet, seeing a flop is good here, because we're paying so cheapily.

In the end, thats what it comes down too. Yes, J9o will lose. It will get outdrawn, it will get bruised. But because seeing the flop is so cheap for how big the pot will be, we must do it.

Oh, and trust me, hands like J9o show a profit. J7o though would be a fold for me, J8o would be marginal. As the connectiveness/top pair chances wear down, the hand starts to suck a lot more.

[numeri]

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You have ~9 outs, bet on the flop.

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Even if I do have 9 clean outs, this wouldn't be for value. I'm almost certainly not peeling one off for free on the turn with TAG in late. Right?

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Hi Aaron. I agree that you don't have nine outs here (maybe 6). How many outs do you need to bet for value if you know it will be 4-handed? (Say there are two callers between you and the TAG.) How many outs do you need to bet for value if you know it will be at least 3-handed?