I don't want to Hold'em

[CMonkey]

As someone previously pointed out, your question is far too vague. You need to outline a situation you want to look at concerning AKs and a rag flop, specifically:

-Your position
-Your table image, how the table's opponents generally react to you
-What the preflop play looked like
-How many opponents are seeing the flop with you
-The style of your opponents (tight/loose, aggressive/passive)

In some situations AKs on a rag flop is a strong hand; in others, it is junk.

[BottlesOf]

[ QUOTE ]
As for being harsh, well I am here looking for knowledge not for a dose of feel good. If I am being boneheaded then it is in my best interest for someone to be up front about it. Thank you for your input.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, this is a great attitude. I wish more new posters felt this way. If you're serious, you'll do well here. GL to you.

[Buccaneer]

Page 99 - 100.

"You are drawing dead if your opponent has pocket queens, but you have three outs (the remaining aces) if he has kings. Your opponent is equally likely to have either hand. Therefore, each of the aces is worth about half an out. That is, half of the time the ace makes you a winner, and half the time it does not. You should play your hand as if it had 1.5 outs."

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Page 99 - 100.

"You are drawing dead if your opponent has pocket queens, but you have three outs (the remaining aces) if he has kings. Your opponent is equally likely to have either hand. Therefore, each of the aces is worth about half an out. That is, half of the time the ace makes you a winner, and half the time it does not. You should play your hand as if it had 1.5 outs."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very specific example on a specific board. Your question was much more general than that. It's a serious, serious mistake to think you only have 1.5 outs. A non-trivial amount of the time, you will actually still have the best hand.

[dana33]

[ QUOTE ]
As for being harsh, well I am here looking for knowledge not for a dose of feel good. If I am being boneheaded then it is in my best interest for someone to be up front about it. Thank you for your input.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good for you! This is exactly the right attitude if you care more about improving your poker game than scoring debate points.

It is a welcome contrast to the newbie in another thread who called everyone here a "bunch of jag-offs" because they ridiculed his post (in which he said he has doubts about PartyPoker's randomness after playing fewer than 200 hands).

[jaybee_70]

Duck! Quick!
Joe

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]

A few times it has been checked to me and I still folded because I really did not see the wisdom in playing the hand further even with a free card because if an A came I would tip my hand when I bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the way, as others have pointed out, this is just awful. They haven't said why becuase it's fairly obvious, but as a new player you might not realize it.

When you fold, you have ZERO chance of winning the pot from here on out. If you fold when checked to, you are giving EVERYONE ELSE IN THE HAND a better chance of winning the hand FOR FREE. No one is charging you money to look at the next card, where you might win. Take the free card.

Who cares if you tip your hand when you bet? Would you rather them know what you have and win the pot, or them not know what you have and lose the pot? If you don't bet, you'll have surprised them if you show down a winner but you would have played awful, awful poker. Poker is about winning money, not necessarily deceiving people into thinking you have a different hand. I've seen people show down Aces without ever betting it. Everyone was surprised. They're also thankful it didn't cost them anything for a chance to beat those Aces.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, as others have pointed out, this is just awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree and know that this is irrationial on my part. I saw it as a big error but did not understand the correction. I think that I have been beat in .50 games because no one folds and they hit when I do not. It does make sense to take the free card or even bet the hand even. I was/am folding this hand because I do not want to have to show it if it doesn't hit, "hey everybody, I was just drawing". Probably better to showdown a looser that is played properly.

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]
A few times it has been checked to me and I still folded because I really did not see the wisdom in playing the hand further even with a free card because if an A came I would tip my hand when I bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am going to assume you are serious and not kidding around.

Let's say you check, an ace comes on the turn, you bet and they all fold. That is not a bad thing. You won the dead money in the pot. Do you think it makes sense to give up your chance to win that money because you won't get paid off when you make your hand?

It is almost always more important to win the money that is in the pot than to collect any additional bets.

Another point: In small stakes games you do not need to make any attempt to disguise your hand. They either are not paying attention to what you might have or they know what you have and will call anyway to see if they can outdraw you. You don't have to make any special efforts to be deceptive since your opponents are not paying any attention. If you bet both your draws and your good hands, that is enough deception.

When you start to move up to games with better players you do need to bet your overcards very often. If you only bet your big pairs and check your overcards, then your opponents will fold when you bet and steal the pot from you when you check.

I think SSH does a very good job of explaining how to play overcards. It takes a while to learn this stuff, so be patient and get some playing experience.

I also think you should read Theory of Poker, because I don't think you understand those fundamentals.

[Klepton]

[ QUOTE ]
# Bet any four flush, or OE Str8 draw – get multiple bets in if possible.


[/ QUOTE ]

not meaning to be a dick, but you will never flop an OE str8 draw, as QJ10 will give you the nuts

you will flop gutshots however