JJ out of position against a PF cap

topspin · #1 05-20-2005, 10:10 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP3 caps, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks...

Hero bets the flop hoping for a raise, wanting to get it HU against the preflop capper. It happens but the calling stations in the hand with us limp along. Hero gives up the plan of trying to force out the rest of the group and plans to check-call down 1 bet on each street, folding to multiple bets.

Thoughts?

milesdyson · #2 05-20-2005, 10:12 PM

Did you realize that when MP3 raises the flop that the callers would be given 10+:1 odds on coldcalling?

Firefly · #3 05-20-2005, 10:14 PM

Reads on the capper?
Your relative position makes playing this hand tough. I probally would have 3-bet the flop but i don't think it accomplishes much.
I like your line because
A) I want to show my hand down
B) I'm not sure i'm beaten
C) I don't think you can protect your hand.

shadow29 · #4 05-20-2005, 10:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Did you realize that when MP3 raises the flop that the callers would be given 10+:1 odds on coldcalling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell of a lot better than 18:1.

I think your plan is fine.

topspin · #5 05-20-2005, 10:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Did you realize that when MP3 raises the flop that the callers would be given 10+:1 odds on coldcalling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but sadly since this isn't no-limit, that's the best I can hope for.

If I check-call the flop and get the turn, I think the majority of the time I just get flat-called and I offer bad odds on both streets.

topspin · #6 05-20-2005, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reads on the capper?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty little. I've played 20 hands with him, and so far he's played maybe 30-40% of his hands. Only raised once but didn't show down, so I don't have a handle on his raising standards.

Shillx · #7 05-20-2005, 10:20 PM

The problem with betting the flop is that MP3 probably isn't going to raise a hand that you beat (unless he has TT). If you think that your hand is good (which is debatable) you should go for a flop check/raise. Since MP3 figures to bet all of his hands, you get an extra bet in there those times you still have the best hand. By leading into him, you only get two bets in when you are drawing to two outs.

Having said all that, I kinda like check/calling the flop if he will not blow everyone away with a worse hand.

Brad

milesdyson · #8 05-20-2005, 10:25 PM

Note that I never offered a better line. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I would just feel better being the agressor on a later street against what could be overcards than succumbing to the call down as soon as he raises the flop.

Options:

1. Check call flop and bet safe turn. If he raises --> we probably have 2 outs.

2. Check call flop and check raise safe turn. If he 3-bets --> we have 2 outs. If he just calls, it actually turns out to be a pretty cheap way to showdown a hand that may be good + trap the players between you two if they are drawing. It's an easy fold to a river raise.

But alas, I really don't know the best line here.

topspin · #9 05-20-2005, 10:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with betting the flop is that MP3 probably isn't going to raise a hand that you beat (unless he has TT). If you think that your hand is good (which is debatable) you should go for a flop check/raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

But this has the effect of trapping the field with a hand that, while it may be best at the moment, is very vulnerable to any of 3 overcards falling. Collectively the field likely has quite a few outs.

I suppose my main frustration with this hand was that there didn't seem to be any good way to protect it, nor did I have such a strong hand that I felt like I could pump the pot with a trapping move. I just couldn't figure out a "good strategy" for this one [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

topspin · #10 05-21-2005, 12:37 AM

Given the flop play, I assume the rest of the hand is standard?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP3 caps, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

River: (12.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB