Trouble on fourth?

[lstream]

I think I should have re-raised on third, but what would you do on fourth? I had just sat down and had no read on the opponents.

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___raises

4th Street - (7.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___double bets
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___???
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___

[Roland]

This sucks. Without a read on seat 1 I lean towards folding; it’s not like cold-calling two raises with tens is unheard of. Also, a king and a deuce are dead and you have to improve.
Then again, against a 3-flush + tens and two pairs you have decent equity and should definitely continue.
Since there is no way you are going to knock out seat 8 you can only call.
So it’s call or fold. I think it’s close.

[benwood]

I think there's a pretty reasonable chance that neither one of them has trips.But still,if I make 2 pair,I can't bet my hand with any confidence,giving me reverse implied odds.Finally,my side cards being semi-dead lean me toward the fold.

[Jeffage]

3rd is fine...I don't think you need to cap there. I'd rather see what develops with last action (and knowing you will be bet into).

On 4th, you've seen what developed and it blows ass. Fold. Trip tens are very likely, trip deuces are possible even with the dead deuce, you're likely behind now and badly. The pot is large, but not large enough to draw to two outs and call a bet on every subsequent street at double the stakes with no more info. I lay it down.

Jeff

To me, 3rd st re-raise is nearly automatic. I would suspect Seat 8 of trying to thin the crowd.
At 4th, I'd have trouble reading Trip 2s because of my own 2 and it seems to me it makes for an odd re-raise on 3rd for Seat 8.
But Seat 1's double bet is a poser. If I know the player, my decision would be based on whether he will automatically double-bet and on my read of his calls on 3rd street. Also, some players will never have trips here because they would have folded 3rd. If I don't know the player, then I think I should fold.

[Gitz]

double indemnity: My term for two door cards being hit.

A hand in 7cs playing that provides for payment of double the amount to the opponents at the table causing death for the non-pair chaser.

Just a painful reminder of losing hands that I try to avoid today.

Paul

[CJC]

Hello,

I suppose I will make my first post in several months, commenting on this hand.

3rd is an auto re-raise, but you know that so I won't chastise.

4th is an auto fold, and it really isn't even close. ( in your situation ). The sidecards to your Aces are dead and you know you are beaten in at least one place, more than likely two, and probably badly beaten. Get out. Lot's of players wouldn't fold Aces in this spot, then again, lot's of players donate alot of money in Stud.

The original post and situation described is EXTREMEMLY important for players new to stud to study and understand.
If players constantly call in situations described, they will be losers. Sure you will throw away the best hand now and then, but over the long run, you will be much better off folding.
Take Care,

CJ

[TheSalche]

I definetly don't put Seat 8 on trip twos, there really is not reasonable hand to do this with (except maybe AA2?). A22 and KK2 are other possiblities but once again not likely. Maybe a three flush w/ace of spades?

Re-raising third doesn't accomplish anything but get more money in the pot, if there were some way of knocking out a player that would make sense, but given the action you played it fine.

[MichaelOar]

Failing to reraise on 3rd st is horrendous.
I realize that raising "doesn't accomplish anything but get more money in the pot," and that is the point. Hero is likely to be first to act on 4th st with the likely bettor to his immediate left, so it isn't like he can force the field to face a double bet then. He's got the best of it on 3rd and needs to make everyone pay. I see that a couple people have said that not raising is okay, and I am absolutely baffled by this--can anyone explain the thought process behind just calling?

The fold on 4th st is just about automatic. Sad, but true.

Michael

[frappeboy]

Fold.