flopped quads -- raise the turn or wait? - Page 2

Nick C · #11 05-25-2005, 11:43 PM

You could try this instead:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 bets, CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

I was really hoping Villain had nines full on the turn or would call with a flush draw or play back at me (or at least call) with a pocket pair.

Anyway, waiting to raise disguises your hand somewhat until you spring into action, which tends to give it away.

Raising immediately represents less, but your opponents may fold anyway, if they don't have much. What's really a bad situation, when you flop a monster, is when the guy to your right takes a stab at the flop on a bluff he has no intention of persisting with and no one else has anything.

The longer you wait, the more chance you give to your opponents to improve (which, when you have a hand as great as quads, is what you want). Also, though, when you wait longer, you also give your opponents less chance to play back at you, if they have something. And, if you wait, they're most likely going to shut down more quickly once you do spring into action, if they flopped a decent hand. Also, if they have a draw but don't hit it, you're not going to get any bets out of them on the river, unless they decide to bluff.

Piiop · #12 05-26-2005, 12:05 AM

I'd also raise the flop for reasons already stated.

Catt · #13 05-26-2005, 12:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
. . . (772 board is pretty weak looking) . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but it is weak-looking to everybody. Raising this flop will be interpreted as you making a move with big overcards, a smallish PP, or maybe a flush draw (if your opponents are observant and know you raise strong draws). Your raising this flop is a lot less intimidating than if you raised an 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] flop and by raising it early when many will call, you fatten up the pot which makes it a heckuva lot easier for them to call down or go nuts when they hit. Calling the flop and raising the turn when a blank falls screams monster to most at Party at this level, I think. Raising this turn in particular might scare everybody off because it looks like you might've hit a flush -- you avoid this to some degree when you push a bit on the flop. Ideally, SB 3-bets and you can smoothcall and raise again on the turn.

On a board like this, anyone without two hearts or a decent pocket pair is probably not going to call a turn bet (let alone a raise) in a smallish pot, especially when a third [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] falls on the turn, as it will somwhere around 1/4 times (depending on how many hearts are in ithers' hands). I am frankly very surprised that you had two guys sticking around not only to the river, but through the river getting capped. WTF did they have?

Matt R. · #14 05-26-2005, 01:06 AM

Not sure if I'm mad that MP2 didn't raise the turn (or flop) or not. It kept the donk in the CO in who called the cap on the river.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

River: (9.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 25.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has 9s 9d (full house, nines full of sevens).
Hero has 7c 7s (four of a kind, sevens).
MP2 has 2s 2d (full house, twos full of sevens).
CO has Ts Jd (two pair, jacks and sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 25.50 BB.

Nick C · #15 05-26-2005, 01:16 AM

Jeez. You really did get lucky in a whole lot of different ways during this hand.

What would have really sucked is if SB didn't catch and you and MP2 (when was he planning to wake up?!) slowplayed all the way to the river.

CO is really very optimistic. I guess maybe he wouldn't have hung around if you'd raised the turn, but, to be results-oriented for a minute, you could've done a lot better on that street.

CallMeIshmael · #16 05-26-2005, 01:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Results in white below:
SB has 9s 9d (full house, nines full of sevens).
Hero has 7c 7s (four of a kind, sevens).
MP2 has 2s 2d (full house, twos full of sevens).
CO has Ts Jd (two pair, jacks and sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 25.50 BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I swear I am not trying to be a doofus when I ask this... I just have to ask:

Is this a joke?

Serious. That is unreal.

Chris Daddy Cool · #17 05-26-2005, 01:23 AM

JuST tReAT 'eM LiKe a pROsTitUTe.

PokerBob · #18 05-26-2005, 01:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Any and all comments welcome, but I'm primarily wondering if I should raise the turn here or if it's best to wait in this case.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

River: (9.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 25.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

The perfect turn card came. Now any big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] will call 2 bets, but anything else will likely fold for one. Raise that mofo up.

hurlanator · #19 05-26-2005, 01:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any and all comments welcome, but I'm primarily wondering if I should raise the turn here or if it's best to wait in this case.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

River: (9.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 25.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

The perfect turn card came. Now any big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] will call 2 bets, but anything else will likely fold for one. Raise that mofo up.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]