Maybe this belongs in poker theory but i'll post it here

[Schneids]

Assertion: Position is least important in games with 5-6 people.

Basically, anyone who doubts the importance of position needs to play a lot of HU to see how important it can be. Likewise, at a tight full table, position becomes increasingly important once again due to the greater likelihood of strong hands behind you.

Therefore, it seems kind of common sense the importance of position could be graphed from HU to ten handed like a 'U,' right?

To expand further on this assertion is from another post where I showed my position stats in 6-max games and the fact I'm disregarding position a lot more than a lot of people and playing more hands UTG and UTG+1 [and probably earning more money from these two positions].

Thoughts?

[arkady]

Rory will have a heart attack.

[Chobohoya]

I disagree with the assertion. I think if you had said exactly 4 people, then I agree. This is simply because in UTG in a 6 handed game, there are 3 to act behind you. In my experience, at least, I cannot come into the pot with nearly as many hands in that spot as I do from the CO. However, CO and button are pretty well equivalent for me in 4 handed play.

[kiddo]

If u are refering to this post:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...mp;o=&vc=1

Then u are still vpip 30 on button and 20 vpip UTG. I play 25/15 so in a way the same.

If u are UTG with fishes behind u problem is they will never let u steal. If you got good players behind you they will 3bet more often and use their position all way, just like HU. Why should it be easier with a good guy behind u in a 6max then HU? I can think about some answers but dinners is ready [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Schneids]

Well obviously position is _important_ in any poker setting I'm just saying it matters least in a 5-6 handed game.

[Silverback]

Do you really think you are disregarding position?

To me it seems you are using it very well, gradually playing more and more hands the nearer you get to the button.

[Grisgra]

His point is that the progression for most is something like 32% down to 15% or less UTG, I think.

My stats at 5/10 looked a lot like his stats for 10/20, but given the goofy aggression and ease at which people 3-bet you at 10/20, I've gone to respecting position at 10/20 6-max a lot more than I did at 5/10. Another reason I'm tightening up in the SB -- at 5/10 my VP$IP was 42% or so, at 10/20, it's lower.

But I also hope that as I figure the game out I'll be able to respect position less, so to speak [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[J.R.]

[ QUOTE ]
To expand further on this assertion is from another post where I showed my position stats in 6-max games and the fact I'm disregarding position a lot more than a lot of people and playing more hands UTG and UTG+1 [and probably earning more money from these two positions].

[/ QUOTE ]

there's a reason you are open-raising as opposed to open-limping, right? A raise 3 or 2 seats off the button buys position a lot of the time, doesn't it?

I was thinking you could graph the ev of getting coldcalled versus not getting coldcalled when opening utg or utg+1, but the fact is the trash people coldcall with (along with what is often correpsondingly poor postflop skills) puts most at such a great disadvantage that it overwhelms their positonal advantage.

put another way, positional disadvatages aren't that imposing when playing against big time chumps.

That doesn't mean your advantage when in position isn't great, just that the advantages that come from position are easily mitgated or overwhelmed by bad play.

[Victor]

nate has a post where he says to shoot from the HIP. here he rates in order:
1. High card
2. Initiative
3. Position

So your assertion is not as outlandish or even novel as it may seem to many 2ers. I recently posted my stats and many posters were appalled that i often openraise qj, q10, 10j, and 22-55. i dont always do this but there are many tables where such boldfaced aggression is very profitable.

my stats in the early positions showed that this was indeed profitable (although i dont have anything to compare it to.) another benefit is the shania effect which cannot be understated.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
there's a reason you are open-raising as opposed to open-limping, right? A raise 3 or 2 seats off the button buys position a lot of the time, doesn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think that's what he's getting at. in 6-max, you can often buy the button from anywhere. in HU, you either have position or you don't. in a full game, an EP raise isn't likely to buy the button since you have to dodge so many random hands.

perhaps the chart should be what % of hands you VPIP in and have the button.

e.g. in HU.. it might be near 50% (well, depends on the match).. in 6-max, it may be over 50% if you often buy the button. in full, it would be less than 50%.