10/20 KQs river - Page 2

jason_t · #11 12-07-2005, 12:51 AM

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If he has the nuts, so be it. And I'm sure he did...or this post might have been on the cutting room floor (and no, none of this is an an insult to Jason - it is the nature of message boards, poker and this forum).

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It's also possible that I just called and got shown 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and cried over not 3-betting.

Jeffage · #12 12-07-2005, 01:03 AM

One other thing I thought about - what if villian will cap any flush here (as many do online with the 4-bet cap). I think even with some doubts, this swings this to a reraise. I personally would always reraise here, but I think it's an interesting factor to consider that is prob not being looked at.

Also, talking to another poster, and he asked me what I'd do if it was the the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] rivered. In an actual game, I would reraise and want to beat myself with a stick when it got capped since that card eliminated so many lower flush possibilities. Just thought that was interesting.

Jeff

jason_t · #13 12-07-2005, 01:09 AM

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One other thing I thought about - what if villian will cap any flush here (as many do online with the 4-bet cap). I think even with some doubts, this swings this to a reraise. I personally would always reraise here, but I think it's an interesting factor to consider that is prob not being looked at.

Also, talking to another poster, and he asked me what I'd do if it was the the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] rivered. In an actual game, I would reraise and want to beat myself with a stick when it got capped since that card eliminated so many lower flush possibilities. Just thought that was interesting.

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Most villains, at least in the games I have played in so far, are fairly passive on the river without the nuts. I think a cap is usually unlikely here with a lower flush.

And I definitely agree with (what I think is) your statement that if the river is the T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I think it's a call.

gonores · #14 12-07-2005, 01:11 AM

I should work on my post reading. I thought this was you vs. shant. It's much closer now, but I think 3-betting is much more viable here, though it's close.

Jeffage · #15 12-07-2005, 01:12 AM

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Most villains, at least in the games I have played in so far, are fairly passive on the river without the nuts.

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This is not my observation when they can raise again but it can't be reraised; just from what I've seen.

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And I definitely agree with (what I think is) your statement that if the river is the T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I think it's a call.

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Right, but would you beat yourself with a stick?

Jeff

Shillx · #16 12-07-2005, 01:25 AM

If he could have any flush here, he is 3:1 to have a worse one. He probably won't have any flush by looking at his stats though. Certainly JT, J9, T9 are possible hands. I would guess that hands like T7, 76 and 65 are also possible here. So if he limps any Ax and could have all those hands, you are a small underdog against his range. It looks like it will come down to either a THIN (and maybe incorrect) value 3bet/fold or a call. I would just call personally.

gh9801 · #17 12-07-2005, 01:56 AM

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of course he has the flush. And of course you have to call. Quit trying to play poker, this is limit.

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omfg this is not fold or call, this is call or raise. Who folds here? gg.

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Any sheep in the herd want to stand up and argue why it's close between a call and raise here? BTW, Villain is not passive, he has like 1.5AF, which is aggro for someone with 35VPIP. I've played a lot of 10/20 on PP lately and I've seen many of these types of players play hands strangely and c/r hands as weak as two pair here.

I still think this is a very clear threebet. No one likes to respond or argue with me because apparently I'm not in with the "in-crowd", I guess.

Entity · #18 12-07-2005, 03:31 AM

Instinctively I 3-bet but I thought about it for just a few minutes and it's wrong. Just call.

GuyOnTilt · #19 12-07-2005, 03:40 AM

Hey Jason,

Just call. He almost will always have a flush here, and A-high make up over 1/3 of his open-limping range from EP.

GoT

Entity · #20 12-07-2005, 03:44 AM

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of course he has the flush. And of course you have to call. Quit trying to play poker, this is limit.

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omfg this is not fold or call, this is call or raise. Who folds here? gg.

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Any sheep in the herd want to stand up and argue why it's close between a call and raise here? BTW, Villain is not passive, he has like 1.5AF, which is aggro for someone with 35VPIP. I've played a lot of 10/20 on PP lately and I've seen many of these types of players play hands strangely and c/r hands as weak as two pair here.

I still think this is a very clear threebet. No one likes to respond or argue with me because apparently I'm not in with the "in-crowd", I guess.

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Hand 1: 37.5000 % 37.50% 00.00% { QQ, 88, 33, AhJh, AhTh, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah2h, JhTh, Jh9h, Th9h }
Hand 2: 62.5000 % 62.50% 00.00% { KhQh }

Take out the retardedly played sets and you're nowhere near a 66% favorite. As is, it's still a call unless you know him well enough that you intend to fold to a cap, and you don't.