the trouble with spying and secrecy

[Andrew Fletcher]

I personally don’t have trouble with the idea that some things should be kept secret from the American people during a time of war. Obviously, when you are trying to destroy an organization like al Qaeda that seeks to kill Americans, it is better not to let everyone know what you’re doing at all times. That’s why we live in a representative democracy as opposed to a rule by referendum. Most people aren’t qualified to make the decisions about how war should be waged.

The trouble with what the Bush Administration has done is the process and justification they are giving for are keeping these things secret from the American people. While it appears that Congressional leaders were briefed, that does not change the facts of the situation. The Bush Administration used the power of the state to spy on people without going through the clear process that is required by the legislative branch. I don’t care if a few members of the legislative branch were informed or not—they still decided to spy on people without getting it approved by judges. That’s illegal, no matter how you look at it.

Unlike many people who are upset, I’m actually open to the idea that the President might have to break the law in order to protect the country. We don’t live in a perfect world and sometimes quick actions are required. However, that is what the presidential pardon is for. If President Bush had to spy on people without warrants, I think it would be ok in certain circumstances. However, I’m only ok with it if the President is transparent with the American people after the crises has passed and makes it publicly clear that violating the constitution was an exception, not a rule.

The trouble with the Bush Administration is that they believe violating laws passed by the legislative branch is a prerogative of the presidency. Ultimately, the executive has the right to suspend whatever laws they deem necessary. Bush and his people want an imperial presidency, unrestrained by either the legislative or judicial branch. To me, this is terrifying.

[BCPVP]

this did not need to be a seperate thread...

[Andrew Fletcher]

i sort of thought that the other thread is about the consquences of spying and this is an arguement about why it is wrong. if the mod wants to lock the thread, i'll happily repost in a more appropriate place.

BCPVP, do you have an actual response or just nit-picking? maybe you want to accuse me of thinking Bush was behind 9-11 or something?

As for the argument that this is a plot to sell books, I hope so. I hope that every American reads the book about how Bush wants to declare himself ruler of the American empire. How can this end any other way?

[Beer and Pizza]

[ QUOTE ]
this did not need to be a seperate thread...

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it does. We have to flood the boards with the same topic to make it appear that something is wrong here.

Its no different than the whole "Bush lied" farce. Repeat it often enough and you will con some otherwise sensible people into thinking that the accusation is true.

Spin X Repetition = Victory.
The liberals have their gameplan and waxie is just putting it into motion.

[Andrew Fletcher]

You're right. George Soros actually sent me a memo this morning.

In this LibComJewMuslim plot to destroy America and freedom, my job is to post on 2+2. Everyone in the secret cabal agrees that is the best use of my time.

[Beer and Pizza]

[ QUOTE ]


In this LibComJewMuslim plot to destroy America and freedom, my job is to post on 2+2. Everyone in the secret cabal agrees that is the best use of my time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are the only one behind your actions. You probably want to see how easily people on the internet can be spun. You start threads, state your opinions, or ask a question that you will later answer for us, and then you are amazed that we don't all bow to your astonishing correctness on all issues. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Andrew Fletcher]

Can you actually respond the post instead of making personal attacks?

[Beer and Pizza]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you actually respond the post instead of making personal attacks?

[/ QUOTE ]

Gee, where was the personal attack? Where was my description of your recent actions on this forum inaccurate? I was complimenting you on your sociological experiment on us. Sorry if it isn't going the way you hoped. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Beer and Pizza]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you actually respond the post...

[/ QUOTE ]


HaHaHa, and this was requested by you for your post which contained the term "LibComJewMuslim plot" [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Are you saying the "LibComJewMuslim plot" is for real? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

It is telling that in five responses none of the right wingers has been able to refute, dispute or even address this:

[ QUOTE ]
The trouble with the Bush Administration is that they believe violating laws passed by the legislative branch is a prerogative of the presidency. Ultimately, the executive has the right to suspend whatever laws they deem necessary. Bush and his people want an imperial presidency, unrestrained by either the legislative or judicial branch.

[/ QUOTE ]

P.S. Hey Beer -- Bush lied! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]