Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Other Topics > Science, Math, and Philosophy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-15-2005, 08:48 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If God exists...

That's why catholics invented purgatory: it's hell (in the form of a really long line) but without all the demons.

kind of a damnation lite. all the punishment, half the guilt.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-15-2005, 10:12 AM
Trantor Trantor is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 12
Default Re: If God exists...

[ QUOTE ]
why discuss this... we all know the concept of good god and hell cannot coexist.. it's either one thats wrong, or the other, or both.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. It could also be that your understanding of "good" is not correct (ie is not in accord with the good God has defined).
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-15-2005, 10:54 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If God exists...

[ QUOTE ]
Lets not fall back on the bible...

[/ QUOTE ]

Please define "God" without using the Bible.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-15-2005, 12:31 PM
mike4bmp mike4bmp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 46
Default Re: If God exists...

Why does society punish its criminals? Why does a mother/father spank their child when they do something wrong? Why is there karma? You reap what you sow....Cartesian principle of action/reaction...just on a grander scale in this case. Everything has a polar opposite.....barring Subjectivistic views of course....you can call it God, Karma, Tao or whatever you want but everything has a balance.
Evil in general is destructive...from a Western point of view anyways....So the source of evil will always be diminished in the end to bring back balance. You have a serial killer who pleads guilty...you execute them...no more killing done by that person...simply the natural laws of retribution.
I do not subscribe to the notion that God lets anyone burn in hell that does not believe in him/her...but I do feel that everyone will be judged according to how they have conducted themselves....and there will probably be a lot more religious people burning in hell then atheist or agnostic...in particular Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians and fanatical Muslims....IMO...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-20-2005, 12:21 AM
SonofJen SonofJen is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
Default Re: If God exists...

[ QUOTE ]
That's right. No rational person who has your (and mine)sense of right and wrong can believe in a good god who creates hell (infinite punishment).


[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? I see this issue (omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god + hell = seemingly incompatible set) as simply an extension of the problem of evil (omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god + world with evil = seemingly incompatible set). But, it seems like to deal with one is to deal with the other. Nameley, it all comes down to free will. The good inherent in free will trumps the good that comes from an all-loving deterministic world free from sin and evil (and hell). And on a different but still interesting note if you believe in angels (and since we're talking about heaven, hell and god, belief in angels isn't too much of a stretch here) then if God can give humans free will to commit evils than why not give angels free will to commit evils or hell or hells. God can still maintain omnibenevolence due to the intrinsic and untrumpable value of free will.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-25-2005, 02:41 AM
TomBrooks TomBrooks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: .5/1 Full Hand
Posts: 671
Default Re: If God exists...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lets not fall back on the bible...

[/ QUOTE ]

Please define "God" without using the Bible.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make it sound like the Bible is the only scripture in the world.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-25-2005, 07:28 AM
Piers Piers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 246
Default Re: If God exists...

[ QUOTE ]
First lets suppose that God does exist. Next lets suppose that God is all good. I happen to believe both the above. If these two statements are true then I don't believe that hell exists. At least not an eternal hell. How could a loving, forgiving god, allow for someone to suffer in hell?

Your thoughts...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to make the extra assumption of all-powerful. Whereupon your statement that hell cannot exist is really an extension of your definition of all-good.

Then what you are really saying becomes, “if an all powerful being existed that could not allow eternal hell to exist, then eternal hell would not exist.” In which case I would tend to agree with you.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-25-2005, 08:57 AM
SNOWBALL138 SNOWBALL138 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: LA
Posts: 518
Default Re: If God exists...

"Next lets suppose that God is all good."

Here's were you went wrong. God is the biggest a$$hole in the universe. Want proof? I recommend you study up on http://www.jaypinkerton.com/backofthebible.html

sorry, my javascript is acting bad so I can't give you a cool looking link.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-25-2005, 08:58 AM
AAAA AAAA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 40
Default Re: If God exists...

Try this one for size.

God didn't create hell. God created, among other things, humans with free will so S/He wouldn't be alone. Without free will, humans couldn't be trusted to choose to be companions for God. (The admiration and companionship of slaves or pets is always suspect, as they have little choice about their circumstances)

Humans with free will created hell through their belief that they were responsible for the actions of other human beings, or as a result of their unahppiness with the natural consequences of some of their choices.

Judgment is Mine, sayeth the Lord might be more than just God claiming the right to judge us. Perhaps S/He is not planning on judging us, as warning us not to judge others, or even ourselves, because judgment of anyone else has no use. Judgment stifles the choices of individuals who always create their own karma, based on natural consequences of behaviors.

Perhaps everyone should live the life they choose freely, knowing they have absolutely no effect on others except as others allow and accept the situation. In other words, the only one we can really affect is ourself, so we have no impact on anyone unless they choose to accept our actions into their reality. Everything else is just illusionary.

The only one we are responsible for is ourself and even then evaluation and correction is more useful than castigation and damnation. Hell is a waste of time!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-25-2005, 10:12 AM
Lestat Lestat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 383
Default Re: If God exists...

<font color="red"> how could a loving, forgiving god, allow for someone to suffer in hell? </font>

I don't know. How could a loving God allow an innocent child to suffer and die from cancer?

It must be nice going through the world picking and choosing your beliefs at will without any need for basis.

I think I'll believe in God. I think I'll believe he's a good God. But I don't think I'll believe in hell. That's just too unpleasant. I think I'll believe in marmalade skies and...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.