I'm very sorry - Page 28

IronUnkind · #**271** 11-10-2005, 09:41 PM

On analogies:

To say that party A should shut up because party B is exercising its rights, is like saying that party C should shut up because party D is exercising its rights.

A = 2+2 posters
B = 2+2 itself
C = African Americans
D = KKK members

I realize that the silencing of one party (2+2 members) is more easily effected than the other (African Americans), but that was not the thrust of my analogy. I was talking about the morality of protest, not the legality.

I don't know why this point continues to escape you:

Just because "causing drama" may be considered a violation of 2+2=5's standards does not mean that it is morally wrong (or even unwise) to do so.

Your irritation with the peanut gallery seems to stem from the appalling notion that rules are rules, and there is no use voicing one's opposition to them. I say this makes you a shill (and I say this in spite of the possibility that observation of fact is sometimes moderated into oblivion).

The service that 2+2 ostensibly provides is an environment for discussion, even if it is "vigorous debate." A modicum of moderation is necessary, but the main criterion for post deletion should be irrelevance, not offensiveness. Tendentious censorship has robbed the denizens of 2+2 of a very important thread, while at the same time it allows twaddle like "nh, sir!" to go unchecked.

AngryCola · #**272** 11-10-2005, 09:52 PM

Are you guys still arguing about this? I wish that I could say I am surprised.

IronUnkind · #**273** 11-10-2005, 10:14 PM

It shouldn't be surprising that people continue discussion while the topic remains lively. Now get thee back to the "longest log" thread, a continual source of surprise, I'm sure.

AngryCola · #**274** 11-10-2005, 10:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
a continual source of surprise, I'm sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

More like disgust, but thanks for checking up on my posts. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

MicroBob · #**275** 11-10-2005, 11:27 PM

I've been out for a couple days so haven't read everything (nor will I) and am just now learning of this latest 2+2 drama.

Mat - nice post. Although it does seem to be a different tone than some of your previoous posts.
Here you are apologizing for some of the possible mis-communications that took place and are taking most of the blame for yourself.

I would very much like it if you participated in the forums more actively as you did in this situation.

It's nice to know that you are "in" on the strategy of some of your moderators in various forums as opposed to the idea that some of them are just being allowed to do whatever they please.

I'm not terribly upset about the over-moderation of some forums and I don't believe it has really affected me. But I understand why so many posters are upset by some developments and I do believe that 2+2 should try to learn from this situation.

There are many 2+2'ers concerned/bothered by the egos and general tone displayed by some of the mods.

Other than that - I very much appreciate the time you took to compose this post and fill us in regarding the whole situation...as well as what I feel is a sincere apology for the problems that these mis-communications caused.

Now please - can we stop having so many popcorn-munching dramas on 2+2? I get hooked on them and it takes away from my time at the tables (where i should be).

Mat Sklansky · #**276** 11-10-2005, 11:37 PM

Regarding moderation: I would be very happy to hear specific complaints and prefer to hear them privately.

This forum and OOT are special cases where I am very aware of the controversial methods being employed. I still haven't decided whether I like these methods. In both cases I have been involved in some of the policy and/or changes to policy. We'll see what happens.

Of far greater concern to me is the notion that moderators in the other forums are misbehaving. If this is the case, as has been implied by many in this thread, please contact me privately. To date, I have received no complaints about our moderators in the other forums.

MicroBob · #**277** 11-10-2005, 11:44 PM

I think the other moderators would be wise to report to you on the status of their forum.

If there has been some kind of complaint about them then they could direct you to the thread.

Kind of a "hey...wanted to let you know that not everyone is thrilled with my performance thus far" or "a couple people thought I was a bit unfair on such-and-such decision."

I agree that anybody with a problem shouldn't be bashful about contacting you about it.
Good that you are specifically stating the 2+2'ers should do this.

Nick B. · #**278** 11-10-2005, 11:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If there has been some kind of complaint about them then they could direct you to the thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the threads that are deleted immediatly.

Daliman · #**279** 11-11-2005, 12:17 AM

THe worst part about this is that he didn't even say anything bad about the mod in question, just that banning shouldn't be a badge of honor.

A sad period for 2+2. Mods have helped to an extent, but MAN, were there some bad decisions made in choosing some of them.

Oh well. You get what you pay for, I guess

Mat Sklansky · #**280** 11-11-2005, 12:26 AM

I find posts of this nature to be counterproductive. You offer no examples. You don't contact me privately; I'm very available. I even posted my freakin' phone number. We're getting ten thousand posts a day here. Individual posters have volunteered to moderate. I've chosen based on reviews of their posts and recommendations from other posters.

If I could read a fraction of the posts put up, I wouldn't need assistance. So please, if it is not your intention to create more negative noise, contact me instead of making posts that everything just sucks.