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#12
12-08-2005, 04:03 PM
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Re: Top set gets raised on the river
[ QUOTE ]
raise, because he's overplaying AA-QQ, or call because of the flush possibilities, or fold for the same reason? [/ QUOTE ] *grunch* flop: I'd probably check raise here, with the flush draw sitting there. Bad time to slow-play. turn: played fine. river: Not folding here. Do you think he backed into a flush? Sure it's possible, but he played like he's got the AA-QQ. I'm too passive, so I'd call down here, but I'm guessing the right move here is to re-raise. 
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#13
12-08-2005, 04:40 PM
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Re: Top set gets raised on the river
*grunching*
I cap preflop. Then I bet flop. Then reraise if necessary. Same thing on turn.
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#14
12-08-2005, 04:59 PM
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Re: Top set gets raised on the river
[ QUOTE ]
flop: I'd probably check raise here, with the flush draw sitting there. Bad time to slow-play. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think you can be worried about flush draws every time there's two of a suit on the board, especially only 3-handed. I got 5 BB's via my line. If I check-raise the flop and lead the turn, I get 4 BB's.
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#15
12-08-2005, 05:14 PM
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Re: Top set gets raised on the river
[ QUOTE ]
I got 5 BB's via my line. If I check-raise the flop and lead the turn, I get 4 BB's. [/ QUOTE ] Huh? I guess you're telling us you won. From my point of view, you got 3 BBs in with clearly the best hand, and 2 in where lots of people are telling you to just call the second bet on the river. If you check-raise and lead, it's quite reasonable to believe that the overpair you apparently lost to would raise the turn, and you could get as many as 4 BBs in with clearly the best hand, while getting a lot more in on the turn charging anyone who does have a draw for the priviledge. Plus, you would take no risk of the turn being checked through, which would be a disaster. I rarely use the check-call-check-raise line when I flop a strong hand. It's very common and handled well by most players. -Eric
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#16
12-08-2005, 05:21 PM
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Re: Top set gets raised on the river
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] flop: I'd probably check raise here, with the flush draw sitting there. Bad time to slow-play. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think you can be worried about flush draws every time there's two of a suit on the board, especially only 3-handed. I got 5 BB's via my line. If I check-raise the flop and lead the turn, I get 4 BB's. [/ QUOTE ] Hi jacki you did gain some bets with the line you took vs check/raising the flop leading the turn but some % of the time the turn checks through and some % of the time you will lose your calling station on the turn. Your line worked out really well in this exact hand but there are risks involved with taking this line. Also had villian had an overpair the flop could have very well been capped 3 ways.
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#17
12-08-2005, 05:28 PM
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Re: Top set gets raised on the river
IMO, the key is getting your money in with the best hand, as elindauer pointed out. as it turns out you did not get the money in when your hand was best. oh, sure your hand is best on that river equity-wise a huge % of the time. but that is in a vacuum. you have information from the way villain played his hand that should have tipped you off and you did not use it.
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#18
12-08-2005, 05:47 PM
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Re: Top set gets raised on the river
cap PF. c/r flop and hope to cap. lead turn. Now that I disagree with your first three streets.
Call the river. I don't think this is that close. With the drawiness of the board, TAG will 3 bet the turn w/ AA-QQ if he's going to raise again. This is not the time to go for an overcall from idiot. The bd flush just came in and also it's not impossible for him to have 77 here. Also, u will lose 2 when behind and win one when ahead. I would actually suspect u're behind more than ahead here.
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#19
12-08-2005, 05:52 PM
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Re: Top set gets raised on the river
[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the river as there are more combos of AA-QQ than AQ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]/AK[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. [/ QUOTE ] Dude, u can't just use ratios here. You have to examine the action and put urself in the position of the opponent (which is a lot easier to do with tight players) and then estimate percentages with possible hands. I assume u already knew this and didn't put much into the response (happens all the time for me), but others on this board may not understand this. He is much more likely to three bet the turn if he is going to raise again with the drawiness of the board than go for an OC from an idiot w/ AA-QQ.
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#20
12-08-2005, 07:33 PM
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Re: Top set gets raised on the river
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I got 5 BB's via my line. If I check-raise the flop and lead the turn, I get 4 BB's. [/ QUOTE ] Huh? I guess you're telling us you won. From my point of view, you got 3 BBs in with clearly the best hand, and 2 in where lots of people are telling you to just call the second bet on the river. If you check-raise and lead, it's quite reasonable to believe that the overpair you apparently lost to would raise the turn, and you could get as many as 4 BBs in with clearly the best hand, while getting a lot more in on the turn charging anyone who does have a draw for the priviledge. Plus, you would take no risk of the turn being checked through, which would be a disaster. I rarely use the check-call-check-raise line when I flop a strong hand. It's very common and handled well by most players. -Eric [/ QUOTE ] I was using those numbers to defend my flop and turn plays. I'm not counting river bets. I agree with others in this thread that my river play was very bad.
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