A hand worth a discussion

[fimbulwinter]

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Bump. This hand isn't really that interesting? No one has comments on the push? Oh well. Chip spewing or good read, such a fine line.

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here's the discussion this hand warrants:

fold preflop.

fim

edit: in response to your inevitable reply: fold preflop or re-raise. I'd probably re-raise, but if you want the easy answer, ditch AJ even against such a wide range of possible holdings.

[Siawyn]

I fold this preflop because AJo is crap out of position to a raise.

Flop -- this isn't the hand to take a stand with. Forget about it. If he's "man handling the table" surely you can bust him when you flop TPTK.

preflop is where it all starts though, and all the other errors compound from that.

[TreyOfLight]

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[willingness to lose] is a benefit of their play style, and [being unable to put them on a hand] doesn't matter, as long as his is worse than yours.

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But doesn't that mean the maniac obligates YOU to make a hand, or to call with ace-high? I'm sure postflop calling standards are just a math problem but it sounds like a hard one.

"Avoid" was a bad choice of word by me. It's not that postflop isn't profitable, it's that preflop is a goldmine.

Sound preflop play is uncomplicated. Maniacs don't use it, though and that's an exploitable leak. When I say "avoid postflop play with maniacs", I mean by getting all-in or committed before the flop.

Ancillary benefit!! faux maniacs (like our villain, apparently) are forced to fold.

The maniac wins by forcing you to make decisions. Each time he does, you have a chance to err. The more decisions per hand, the less you win.

[FreakDaddy]

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The pre-flop re-raise isn't a bad idea, and if I were going to play this hand against most opponents in a raised pot OOP that's what I would do, but I elected not to for good reason. Villian had a tendency to go over the top and I wanted to play the cards cheap, hit the flop or bail. It was a marginal hit and a gutsy post flop play.
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The whole hand is questionable, but in my overall view, after listening and reflecting on it, I think a great hand. I'm enjoying the discussion though.

[/ QUOTE ]Headsup with a maniac and allin preflop with AJo is a solid play, maybe.

Postflop, 4-way and oop with that same AJo and a raised pot is a freaking abortion. What was your plan if MP1, BB and UTG+1 called you on the flop? How about if the maniac reraised them all after that? Maybe he's just being maniacal and your jacks are good, but you've no clue what the other three hold. Your position cripples you.

In general, postflop play with maniacs is best avoided because (a) they're more willing to lose their stack than you are, and (b) you can't put them on a hand.

There will be other hands, hands where you aren't in the SB and raised by a third party, and other chances to take the maniac's stack. Be patient.

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I stated this in other posts. If I was called with my flop lead out by anyone other than maniac I was going to be done with the hand.

[beset7]

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I think I was the villain in this hand. Seriously. When was this? PM me your party name if you want me to confirm.

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now that's funny

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Atleast you thought it was funny swolfe. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I didn't get a PM...