Posting into games

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
in a 5/10 blind structure, you post $15 to see 10 hands. $1.50 per hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
This isn't the right way to view it. The $15 you post is not dead money as you have some equity in the pot. Thus, it costs less than $15 to pay your blinds. The reason this is a significant distinction is that it means that it is not correct to view posting in the BB as costing $15 in blinds and posting in the CO costs $10. You have much more equity in the money you post in the cutoff than you do in the money you post out of position, so the $10 you post in the CO costs much less than the $10 you post in the BB. This means that the difference between the cost of coming in on your BB and the cost of coming in on your CO is more than just the money you lose by being forced to post in the SB. This is why I always post in my CO. I agree that if the difference in cost were only the fraction of a bet I lose by having to be small blind, then that might be a fair price to get the button, but the difference in cost is in fact larger than it appears. (I've posted similar comments on this thread already, so I apologize if this post is a bit redundant, but the distinction here is core to the whole question of where you are best off coming in).

(Also, if you were an idiot savant on this topic that would mean that you would be the one leading rather than following as an idiot savant is someone who is a complete genius on one topic despite being mentally retarded in general).

[SLEEPER]

I personally always wait to post in the cutoff.... The button is the best seat at the table, but the cutoff is pretty damn good too..... I think it is all about position, and BB and SB are horrible position!

In a 5/10 game.... you would pay $7 to play 10 hands (assuming a $2 SB and 10 players at the table) and $5 for 7 hands if you post in the cutoff. But two of the 10 hands that you are paying extra for are in horrible position.....

[esspo]

[ QUOTE ]
Posting a bet in the BB and posting a bet the cutoff are completely different because you have much more equity in ever dollar you put in the pot when you are in late position and there are many more hands that you would be playing there anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I wasn't clear. You add up your equity from the button, plus the sb plus the bb and you get a number. If that number is greater than the sb then you should post in the bb.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I wasn't clear. You add up your equity from the button, plus the sb plus the bb and you get a number. If that number is greater than the sb then you should post in the bb.

[/ QUOTE ]
You were clear. The math just isn't correct. You would need to add up the equity of playing the BB, SB, button and cutoff (on hands where you didn't post in the cutoff) and compare it to the equity of hands where you post in the cutoff. Of course, your equity includes the money you lose as a result of being forced to post. That is the only right way to do since those the two options. Anything else means you are taking shortcuts that are just wrong. Here you are consider the difference in "cost" to be the sb, but it isn't, as I've explained a few times, since the money you post isn't dead.

[anatta]

I'm still not sure. It seems to me that by posting in between as compared to the cuttoff, you get two hands for the price of one, and you still get the cutoff. I think we can still chop three ways. I understand that the three chips you have in the cutoff have more equity or whatever than the three chips you have in between, but I am not sure if it makes up for the fact that you get twice as many hands. I see your point that for the price of the SB, you get three hands including the button.

So I have just read in this thread that posting in the cuttoff is better than the BB, that they are equal, that posting in between is the best, and that posting in between is the worst. Ugh!

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we can still chop three ways

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, I didn't know that. The places in my area do not permit you to post between. However, they use the stupid "forward-moving button rule" which means that we frequently end up with more than two blinds on a hand if someone gets up and leaves (I love when I get to post my SB on the button rather than to the left of it). There is a general rule that three-way chops are never permitted in any context. I assumed that that was also true of places with posting between, but apparently not. If you are in a game where it is likely to fold around to your blind and the other two blinds will chop you with you, then posting between doesn't look nearly so bad. When that happens it is essentially "free" to come in and you get the button. Ok.

[cpk]

oops, buying the button only applies once you are sitting in the game and miss your big blind

Not necessarily--some houses will let you buy the button only when entering a game. Weird, I know.