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  #1  
Old 12-30-2005, 04:40 PM
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Default Bubble Play with KK

OK fellow 2+2ers, I seldom post but this hand got me thinking long after the tourney.

FT $24+2 with 176 starting. We are down to 19, and 18 places pay. TD just announced Hand by Hand for 3 tables. We have 7 at ours.

I had wonderful reads on everyone involved. UTG+1 was weak tight and would fold to almost any re-raise. CO was a solid TAG & we had been together for almost 40 minutes. I had a solid TAG with nothing but good cards shown for the whole time. First time I have not been caught stealing [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]! I am currently in 10th place with two players who will not survive the next BB. Avg = t13,900.

UTG+1 (t7000)
CO (t13,500)
Hero in BB (t11,200)

Action:
UTG+1 limps (t1000); CO raises to t2500;

Hero has KK in BB. What's my line?
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  #2  
Old 12-30-2005, 04:43 PM
benneh benneh is offline
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Default Re: Bubble Play with KK

Push
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  #3  
Old 12-30-2005, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Bubble Play with KK

[ QUOTE ]
Push

[/ QUOTE ]

If the situation were so cut & dried, I wouldn't have posted. If anyone's answer is "push", please give your reasoning.
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  #4  
Old 12-30-2005, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Bubble Play with KK

Push

If he calls with AA, it just wasn't your day.
If he calls with QQ/JJ, it just wasn't his day.
If he calls with anything else, he deserves what he gets.
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  #5  
Old 12-30-2005, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Bubble Play with KK

To expand a bit:

I don't play just to limp into the money. I want to make the top 5 (which is usually where the good money is).

The money already in the pot is almost half your stack, so taking it down represents a big win.

The TAG has apparently seen the limper fold in a situation like this before, so could be doing this with any decent hand.

There is a total of one hand you're truly afraid of: AA, but any flop with an Ace is bad news.

There is no reason to let the Villain see the flop without being pot committed ahead of time. He needs to out-flop you, not the reverse.
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  #6  
Old 12-30-2005, 04:59 PM
Art Vandelay Art Vandelay is offline
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Default Re: Bubble Play with KK

First things, folding obviously is not an option and calling is not going to happen here (potentially 3 way pot out of position, yuck). So, the question becomes how much to raise in my view.

Option 1: Min reraise to 5k. UTG+1 becomes pot committed if he's calling this, so if he's playing it's for all his chips. Unless CO is absoltuely donktastic, he's calling another 2.5k into this now monster pot. This is half your stack so I'm not sure I like this move. If you go this route you are pushing nearly any flop, though 3 way with an Ace on the flop you are toast most likely.

Option 2: Push. Any raise other than a min reraise is for too much of your stack so I think it has to be a push. UTG+1 is still in the same boat, as he's playing for all his chips if he continues in this hand regardless of your action. Now, CO has a difficult decision as you've made it much more difficult for him to call off virtually all of his stack, leaving him with ~2BB. If he calls, great, you have the potential to more than double and if UTG+1 calls (I have a feeling you found one of those AA EP limpers) you could really land a big score with your premium holding. If he folds I'm hoping for an UTG+1 call and hopefully we can KO him.

Worst case you push both fold and you add 5k to your stack for an increase of ~33%. Not a bad return on KK. I like the push.
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  #7  
Old 12-30-2005, 05:24 PM
davidross davidross is offline
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Default Re: Bubble Play with KK

I can't imagine any play other than push. Presumably the CO has the same read on UTG as you do so he could raise with a lot of hands. Even if his range is AK/AA I think a push is in order,and obviously his range is much wider than this.

I'd like to cash, but finishing high is much more important, I'll take the 4500 if they fold, but i'll love the 23K when i double.
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  #8  
Old 12-30-2005, 05:29 PM
Dave D Dave D is offline
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Default Re: Bubble Play with KK

[ QUOTE ]
Push

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 11 blinds, and even if they both fold you increase your stack by 50% (2.5k+1k+1k+.5k). Ideally one of them will call with a hand less than KK.

The only hand you're scared of is AA. It's possible...but unlikely. Don't forget you're playing for first.
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  #9  
Old 12-30-2005, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Bubble Play with KK

All in here is the only option. I can't imagine even the worst player slow playing aces given his stack and the fact that he's BB next hand, so you know you have him beat.

If UTG calls your all in and TAG folds, even if you're drawn out on you still have enough chips to possibly make something happen.

If UTG folds and TAG calls, then at the very least you know you put your money in with the best hand (AA is POSSIBLE, of course, but certainly not probable enough to get away from the hand for that reason).

If you fear a drawing hand that can really improve over you (say AQ suited), and you'd rather just make the money than have a chance to double up and win the thing, then fold.

I push all-in here, though.
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  #10  
Old 12-30-2005, 06:01 PM
tshak tshak is offline
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Default Re: Bubble Play with KK

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Push

[/ QUOTE ]

If the situation were so cut & dried, I wouldn't have posted. If anyone's answer is "push", please give your reasoning.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm curious as to what makes you feel like this is not a cut & dried situation? I agree that this is a pretty standard push. Sure we want CO coming along. Depending on the type of player he is I think that a push accomplishes this just as much as any other raise so I'd rather just get them in now.
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