Why I lose all my money blind stealing

#1 09-27-2005, 02:32 AM

I hate blind stealing

Example 1

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero ...

and Example 2

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero...

Whats my plan on both??

billyjex · #2 09-27-2005, 02:36 AM

Hand 1 is a very easy fold. Just because you raised preflop doesn't mean you can't fold the flop for one bet. He 3-bet you, and there's an A on board. I can't muck faster.

Hand 2, slow down buddy. I probably just call the flop (as well as calling the turn unless I improve.) Whatever he 3-bet preflop is not folding anyone on the flop or the turn in this hand, and you'll just be losing more money while drawing.

It looks like you may spew in these scenarios. Sometimes, it is better to play passively.

deepsquat · #3 09-27-2005, 02:38 AM

Hand 1- fold.

Hand 2- I raise the flop and bet the turn. As you were 3bet i just check/call until i hit. Capping the flop is spewing.

U cant win every pot.

sweetjazz · #4 09-27-2005, 02:43 AM

Think about what you are doing. First hand...good raise PF. Note that QTo is toward the bottom of your hand range. Now you're 3-bet by a blind. Uh oh...you're probably behind and will need to hit the board to win. The flop missed you. Easy fold.

Second hand...basically same story before the flop. This time, you catch an open ended straight draw. What do you want to accomplish by raising the flop? It might buy you a free card, it might disguise your hand somewhat, and it might allow you to win the pot unimproved. But you need to be making reads to figure this out. It might not be doing any of those things and you might be flinging chips into the pot with the worst of it. Ultimately, your play of this hand isn't horrible, but it's worth thinking about what you are trying to accomplish. As for the turn, I think calling is best. You can easily fold the river unimproved.

dhaimon · #5 09-27-2005, 02:51 AM

hand 1 - let it go.
hand 2 - call the 3 bet and raise if you hit the king or straight. fold river if you dont

DaSpade · #6 09-27-2005, 02:55 AM

I agree with the other posters .... good points.
1) Easy fold
2) Easy call

Blind stealing is a very important integral part of your game. You will love it eventually. You need to consider the type of players among numerous other factors (many of which I am still trying to figure out) while attempting it. Just because you are stealing does'nt mean you have to win the pot at any cost -- spewing.

redbeard · #7 09-27-2005, 03:04 AM

example 1) fold. he knows damn well you might have an ace and he still bet into you. even if he only has paired one of the other two cards you are way behind and a call or raise is definately a (-EV) play.

example 2) call the turn and pray for a staight to come in on the river. if a fourth diamond hits i call that too with the 8d in your hand. don't get too cute here even if you hit your straight he may already have a made flush.

TomBrooks · #8 09-27-2005, 03:14 AM

1. Fold the flop.

2. Just call. Raising opens you up to get three bet which is undesirable with a draw HU.

GoblinMason (Craig) · #9 09-27-2005, 04:22 AM

You guys are being pretty hard on the flop cap in hand 2. I think you get a free card somewhat often and you have a lot of equity given how often your 3 K outs are good.

-Craig

MicroBob · #10 09-27-2005, 05:05 AM

interesting.

I'm with the others in that I think this flop-cap is really terrible and that there isn't much point.

There are some read-dependent situations where I could CONSIDER it though

example:
guy who is maniacally capping with nothing in such situations....and has gotten me to lay-down before...and has seen me show-down the goods extremely often....then my flop-cap is designed to try to take it on the turn with my semi-bluff bet.
Basically I HAVE to be convinced that he could be coming at me with absolutely nothing AND respects my turn-bets enough to have a decent chance of letting it go.
I've played with a few guys who behave this way.
Flop-ag around 9,000, turn-ag = lets it go when they don't have much (especially against me).

Short of playing a guy like this where YOU are the one who is trying to put on some kind special play WITH a bunch of outs to back you up...I just can't see the flop cap as being a good as a default-type play.
The times when I would actually find value in capping would be a pretty small minority (and I'm not so sure that even THEN they have value...instead of me justifying really silly chip-spewing because I am trying to pretend that the situation actually calls for it).