KK on like worst river ever in the history of rivers

[adamstewart]

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It lets villain play perfectly against us. He bets his better hands, and checks his worse ones. Maybe he'll check a 9 through.

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This is a huge point for me, and a concept I really try to consider on each and every applicable river.

Adam, I think that any straight bets this river if checked to.

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So what? If we bet, he raises (or calls) with his better hands, and folds his worse ones?

Whether or not the villain plays his hand 'perfectly' is not as big a deal as whether HERO plays his hand correctly in this situation.


Adam

[Victor]

its ridiculous how long this thread. bet/fold is by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrr the superior line.

[censored] this noise about 2 pair folding. one pair is not even folding. this is what is known as a VALUE bet. its a VALUE bet bc you get gazillions of worse to call and no worse hands are gonna bet. heres a few hands that call k2, k3, k4, k5, k6, k7, k8, k10, kj, kq, q2, a3, q4, q5, q6, q7, q8, q10, qj, qq, j10, jj. wow, thats a lot of hands. its possible that all of the j and ten pairs call too. ppl are that bad. the games are that good. checkcalling sucks sweaty hair donkey balls and loses nearly one FULL BET.

[Surfbullet]

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So what? If we bet, he raises (or calls) with his better hands, and folds his worse ones?

Whether or not the villain plays his hand 'perfectly' is not as big a deal as whether HERO plays his hand correctly in this situation.


Adam

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I guess we just have to agree to disagree. IMHO, he doesn't fold many worse hands. Players don't fold a pair for 1 bet on the river, let alone 2 pair.

Surf

[Victor]

good response and i see now why the thread has gone so far. you have fallen into a trap and are causing other to as well. here is your incorrect statement:

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Thus, the only benefit to betting this river is in hopes that a pair, or two pair, or smaller set will call. But, these holdings are far less likely than a straight or flush.

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primarily the last part is wrong. lets go throught the possible hands villain can have:

1st assume the board is 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]j [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]k [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

hands we beat that call:
qj 6ways
10j 6ways
q10 6ways
q5 6ways
j5 6ways
105 6ways
tt 3ways
55 3wyas
jj 3ways
qq 3ways
k5 3ways
k10 3ways
kj 3ways
kq 3ways
k2-8 28ways
q2-8 42ways

ok, im bored and dont feel like goin on, but thats 130 hands you beat that WILL call bc party players suck.

[krishanleong]

I bet fold.

If you believe in Clark, really really believe in Clark, than you will bet fold 1 pair, 2 pair, set, and straight hands. Check calling with sets or straights just means you lack faith.

Krishan

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and I do think Ax folds their straight here sometimes with no clubs.

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I disagree.

[Victor]

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and I do think Ax folds their straight here sometimes with no clubs.

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I disagree.

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there is no freakin way an ace, 9, 2pair, set or pair of kings folds here. you people need to realize that in a headsup pot ppl call the riv with anything.

[tolbiny]

Non thinking players are bad, and bad players do bad things which is good for us. a fold is so double pluss good that it only has to happen 1/20 times when he has a better hand that it is better to bet, than to check call.

[dhaimon]

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Bet-fold. 2pair will call. A straight might not raise b/c of the clubs.

Surf

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huh? Bet-fold cost 1 bet without seeing a showdown. check call will cost one bet while seeing a showdown plus give your opponent a chance to bet a worse hand

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yes, but a worse hand will often check behind too.

[Danenania]

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huh? Bet-fold cost 1 bet without seeing a showdown. check call will cost one bet while seeing a showdown plus give your opponent a chance to bet a worse hand

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To people who are thinking like this, or just don't understand what's good about a bet/fold here, I would recommend reading/rereading either TOP's section on river play, King Yao's section on river play, or both.