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  #1  
Old 12-10-2005, 02:48 AM
tyler_cracker tyler_cracker is offline
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Default clarkmeistering the turn?

This hand comes out of my mutual sweating session with A_K. We met in the coach exchange thread! It was a lot of fun. A_K is a set flopping *machine*, and he didn't berate me after i limped QTo in MP3 after 3 limpers.

Villain is 50/3/0.45 over 100 hands. He is a donkey. He has donked the river twice against me, once with UI A6s after i raised preflop and lead the whole way.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Button folds, SB folds.

<font color="blue">No idea who might bet or where the bet would come from, so a check/raise is out. Leading is the next best thing, right? Or should i just check and observe the action and re-evaluate?</font>

Turn: (4 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero folds.

Villain had the "raise any" box checked (or has a super fast index finger). A standard Clarkmeister is to do this on the river, but i thought a lot of the advantages are available here on the turn: I have some fold equity, i don't get raised by a worse hand (though i contemplated calling because of his donkiness and the fishy autoraise situation), plus i might have the best hand.

More importantly, i had no idea what i would do if i checked and he bet. Just give up?

Also, how are you proceeding if he just calls and the river is a blank. Do i check and hope he checks behind or that i induce a bluff? Check/fold? Bet again (this pretty clearly sucks, as worse hands aren't calling but better hands aren't folding).
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2005, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

Villain raises turn with four to the flush. And all you have is top pair, no kicker. The bet is fine, because I think a check by you almost guarantees a bet/bluff, which you can't really call. But I agree that the bet is done with the intention of folding to a raise.
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2005, 03:44 AM
Slim Pickens Slim Pickens is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

Folding to the raise is perfectly fine. Do you seriously think a donkey will have the sophistication to use the autoraise button to bluff you? A better line might be to check-raise and fold to a 3-bet. Oh wait, you only use that strategy against rocks, not donkeys.

I have a habit of often check-raising top pairs out of the blinds on the flop in multiway pots, but I'd think people are less likely to bet at a highly coordinated board, so the lead is probably more appropriate.
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Old 12-10-2005, 07:47 AM
ajm36 ajm36 is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

nh
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2005, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

i check/fold the flop, your hand is terrible.
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2005, 12:45 PM
A_K A_K is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

For what its worth, I advocated check/folding the turn. There is an awfully good chance that villan has a heart in his hand, and given his donkish nature, I don't see him laying down even a little flush to our bet.

But I prefer to wait until the next hand a flop a set. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 12-12-2005, 01:10 PM
bozlax bozlax is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

[ QUOTE ]
i check/fold the flop, your hand is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:58 PM
MN_Mime MN_Mime is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

It's a difficult hand to play, but I can't Pokerstove anything reasonable that shows he doesn't have the equity to bet this flop. Against villain headsup, he's a 3:2 favorite, but after the turn he's at best a 2:1 dog with a good chance he's drawing dead.

In MP2s shoes, how would you play A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] against hero (and the rest of the field)?
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:20 PM
Fantam Fantam is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

[ QUOTE ]
It's a difficult hand to play, but I can't Pokerstove anything reasonable that shows he doesn't have the equity to bet this flop. Against villain headsup, he's a 3:2 favorite, but after the turn he's at best a 2:1 dog with a good chance he's drawing dead.

In MP2s shoes, how would you play A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] against hero (and the rest of the field)?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I was MP2, I would have folded A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] to the flop bet.

Anyway, I agree with the suggestion that OP should have check/folded the flop.

6 players saw that flop, and it was very likely that one or more of them had a decent flush draw. It was even possible that someone already had the made flush.

By checking the flop, the OP would be in a better position if the flop got checked through. Then he would be able to wait and see if a blank fell on the turn.
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i check/fold the flop, your hand is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
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