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  #1  
Old 12-06-2005, 05:12 AM
theweatherman theweatherman is offline
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Default Athiests; a question.

(Sorry if this has been discussed before, but i found nothing in search)

Is there a difference between the dead and those who are unborn?

Both seem to equally not exist. I'm pretty sure that most relgions say that the unconcieved have no soul (since they have yet to be created by God) but the dead do.

To an athiest there seems to be no distinction. What does mean in regards to possible reincarnation? Since personality/ conciousness arises seemingly at random in a fetus it seems that one cannot discount reincarnation as false, or am I missing something here?
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2005, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: Athiests; a question.

[ QUOTE ]
Since personality/ conciousness arises seemingly at random in a fetus it seems that one cannot discount reincarnation as false

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesnt make sense. Former just doesn't lead to the latter.

Note that there will almost certainly be no atheists who believe in reincarnation.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2005, 09:26 AM
hmkpoker hmkpoker is offline
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Default Re: Athiests; a question.

[ QUOTE ]
Both seem to equally not exist. I'm pretty sure that most relgions say that the unconcieved have no soul (since they have yet to be created by God) but the dead do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Atheists don't believe in the soul.

[ QUOTE ]
What does mean in regards to possible reincarnation? Since personality/ conciousness arises seemingly at random in a fetus it seems that one cannot discount reincarnation as false, or am I missing something here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Personality/consciousness is a phenomenon that arises from having a functional human brain. Fetuses and the dead have neither. We have no reason to believe in reincarnation.
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  #4  
Old 12-06-2005, 11:49 AM
imported_luckyme imported_luckyme is offline
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Default Re: Athiests; a question.

Your post is very difficult to respond to. Each statement/premise seems false or at best very inaccurate. You might make better progress if you started lower down the list of assumptions and questioned from there.
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:51 PM
bocablkr bocablkr is offline
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Default Re: Athiests; a question.

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a difference between the dead and those who are unborn?


[/ QUOTE ]

No, neither one exists. Note: atheists do not believe in a soul or reincarnation.
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:58 PM
theweatherman theweatherman is offline
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Default Re: Athiests; a question.

maybe im explaining this poorly so I'll try to seperate the points a little.

Since there is no distinction between the dead and the unborn it seems impossible to discount reincarnation.

This is because both the dead and unborn equally do not exist. When the unborn are concieved thay move from a nonexistient state to one of existence.

Since the dead and the unborn are equally non existient can not a dead person be reincarnated through the same process that crates the existence of the unborn?

Obviously few, if any, athiests believe in reincarnation, but is there any reason to doubt it's plausability?
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:02 PM
TomCollins TomCollins is offline
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Default Re: Athiests; a question.

[ QUOTE ]
maybe im explaining this poorly so I'll try to seperate the points a little.

Since there is no distinction between the dead and the unborn it seems impossible to discount reincarnation.

This is because both the dead and unborn equally do not exist. When the unborn are concieved thay move from a nonexistient state to one of existence.

Since the dead and the unborn are equally non existient can not a dead person be reincarnated through the same process that crates the existence of the unborn?

Obviously few, if any, athiests believe in reincarnation, but is there any reason to doubt it's plausability?

[/ QUOTE ]

If something ceases to exist, it cannot come back into being.
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:05 PM
theweatherman theweatherman is offline
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Default Re: Athiests; a question.

[ QUOTE ]
If something ceases to exist, it cannot come back into being.


[/ QUOTE ]

That doesnt seem true, as it has been said above, before conception no one existed. The act ofconception moves you from a state of nonexistence to one of existence.

It seemingly should make no difference if that person had existed before or not, since they would still be equally non existent as a dead person, or an unborn person.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:09 PM
imported_luckyme imported_luckyme is offline
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Default Re: Athiests; a question.

In an effort to be helpful I'll point to areas of disagreement and then you can decide which one to work on first.
[ QUOTE ]
Since there is no distinction between the dead and the unborn it seems impossible to discount reincarnation.

[/ QUOTE ] There are lots of distinctions between the dead and the unborn. The 'incarnation claim' is like adding "and the red goose can mustky two wiglets".
[ QUOTE ]
This is because both the dead and unborn equally do not exist.

[/ QUOTE ] Not a meaningful statement "not existing" is like what happens as you enter a black hole, it impossible to say what is 'equal' beyond that. Naturally in a physical sense they do exist. [ QUOTE ]
When the unborn are concieved thay move from a nonexistient state to one of existence.

[/ QUOTE ] Meaninngless until several of the terms are clearly defined.
[ QUOTE ]
Since the dead and the unborn are equally non existient can not a dead person be reincarnated through the same process that crates the existence of the unborn?

[/ QUOTE ] see above and add "read something about neuroscience". [ QUOTE ]
Obviously few, if any, athiests believe in reincarnation, but is there any reason to doubt it's plausability?

[/ QUOTE ] You slip into the "prove it wrong' fallacy here. State your evidence for reincarnation and I'm sure you'll find takers on challenging it.
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:17 PM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: Athiests; a question.

A bubble doesn't exist, then it exists for a brief time, then it doesn't exist. Are you saying this bubble can realize life again by coming into existence as a tree or an alligator?

I still don't see why or how you are linking non-existence with reincarnation. Many things don't exist. You're correct that an unborn child, a dead man, and a flying brick wall that eats ogres and shits elephants all don't exist equally. But what's your point? None of these things are any more likely to reincarnate from a non-existent state.
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