($27) Raise size question

durron597 · #1 11-19-2005, 05:11 PM

The SB is a total preflop fish, making raises and calling raises with any two. No real reads on the other guys.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 (t1360)
Hero (t1740)
CO (t1840)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1300)
BB (t1020)
UTG (t1440)
UTG+1 (t1830)
MP1 (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t20, UTG+1 calls t20, 1 fold, MP2 raises to t80, Hero calls t80, 2 folds, SB calls t70, 1 fold, UTG calls t60, UTG+1 calls t60.

Flop: (t420) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG bets t80, UTG+1 calls t80, MP2 calls t80, Hero raises to ???

Oluwafemi · #2 11-19-2005, 05:22 PM

660 to you, raise 860.

#3 11-19-2005, 05:31 PM

I'd PERSONALLY crank this up to 500, but hey I've only recently started taking SNG's seriously and still building a b'roll at the $5's, so this is it what I'D do, not particularly what you SHOULD do. Just thought I'd contribute though.

#4 11-19-2005, 05:34 PM

Push, and don't forget to fill up on the river when they draw out on you on the turn.

Any reasonable raise is around half your remaining stack, and I don't think you're getting away from this hand on the turn if they call and a scare card hits, so make them pay full price to draw now.

durron597 · #5 11-19-2005, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Any reasonable raise is around half your remaining stack, and I don't think you're getting away from this hand on the turn if they call and a scare card hits, so make them pay full price to draw now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to protect my hand, not turn it into 72o.

I want to raise an amount that will make it a mistake for a draw to call, but not so much that everyone folds anyway. The question is, how much is that?

The Yugoslavian · #6 11-19-2005, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I want to protect my hand, not turn it into 72o.

[/ QUOTE ]

In short stack STT you don't need to protect your hand as much as extract value with it. This concept is much more applicable IMO to other structures of poker. You want to do whatever will net you the most amount of chips (while minimizing risk of course)....often this entails doing something that explicitly *doesn't* protect your hand.

The sad fact of the matter is with players betting and calling 80 into a ~500 pot, you're likely not stacking anywhere here or extracting many more chips anyway which is a bit sad. That's one reason why calling that preflop raise isn't necessarily a good idea.

Yugoslav

durron597 · #7 11-19-2005, 06:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The sad fact of the matter is with players betting and calling 80 into a ~500 pot, you're likely not stacking anywhere here or extracting many more chips anyway which is a bit sad. That's one reason why calling that preflop raise isn't necessarily a good idea.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew the SB was coming with any two. I figured that with 2 callers, the EP limpers would be strongly tempted to come along as well... if say only one of them calls and the BB folds I'm calling 80 to win 260 in a 4 way pot with position. That means I need to win about ~440 more in a 4 way pot every time to make it correct.

Plus since this is a Turbo, it's a big mistake to fold too much.

#8 11-19-2005, 06:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I want to raise an amount that will make it a mistake for a draw to call, but not so much that everyone folds anyway. The question is, how much is that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, assuming you can't fold any turn, the pot essentially already has your entire stack in it. So, the pot's effectively got 2320. Flush draws are better than 2:1, so you could raise to ~1k or something. This is a pretty clear push, IMHO.

microbet · #9 11-19-2005, 06:13 PM

I like pushing. If it's protection, fine, but you are likely to get at least one call.

Irieguy · #10 11-19-2005, 06:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I want to protect my hand, not turn it into 72o.

[/ QUOTE ]

In short stack STT you don't need to protect your hand as much as extract value with it. This concept is much more applicable IMO to other structures of poker. You want to do whatever will net you the most amount of chips (while minimizing risk of course)....often this entails doing something that explicitly *doesn't* protect your hand.

The sad fact of the matter is with players betting and calling 80 into a ~500 pot, you're likely not stacking anywhere here or extracting many more chips anyway which is a bit sad. That's one reason why calling that preflop raise isn't necessarily a good idea.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Nothing wrong with just getting it in there and i'm not in love with calling the raise preflop.

Irieguy