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  #11  
Old 12-15-2005, 04:30 AM
Slim Pickens Slim Pickens is offline
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Default Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

In quasi's shoes, a player (AAAMAN in this case) with 70% VPIP and 35% PFR is just asking to be isolated. 99 and AJs are both good enough for me to play for all my chips at any point against the top 35% of hands. I would be re-raising to isolate at that point. On the other hand, with no read or anything other than a super-LAG read, my reraising range is probably more like AKs,JJ+, and KK still plays just fine against those.

It's never a fold, but it's not an easy spot.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2005, 04:36 AM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

[ QUOTE ]
No, it can't be QQ. What good player does this near minimum pot odds reraise crap with QQ? Give me a break.


[/ QUOTE ]

These are my thoughts about QQ as well, which leads me to believe that I'm narrowing his hand range down to 2 hands. If you believe this as well (which I can't tell), why wouldn't you fold this?
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2005, 04:38 AM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

[ QUOTE ]
I'm bored tonight and pissed off due to my own mental lapse

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My own advice is quit chasing the honeybees on the BJ leaderboard. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2005, 04:49 AM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

[ QUOTE ]
I'm never folding KK on lvl 2 of an 800 chip game, so I don't think it really matters.

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That's how I think too. It was just one of those situations where my hunch was I was behind or tied. These situations don't happen all that often, but when they do, I'm right more often than I am wrong. Bleh.
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  #15  
Old 12-15-2005, 05:02 AM
Slim Pickens Slim Pickens is offline
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Default Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

99 is something like a 61% favorite against a top-35% range. A 61% favorite is good enough for me to take all the way at any stage of the tournament and anyone who suggests otherwise is either a +40% ROI player long-term at that level or they're being an idiot.

If the original raiser is not a super-LAG, no way I'm raising 99, as previously stated.

The other players at the table, in a 33, don't usually know the difference between a 3:1 call and a 1:1 call, so raising the absolute minimum that looks big is plenty to avoid going broke with JJ/AKo against a player behind with KK who (rightly) pushes over your raise.

I only threw 99 out there as an extreme to show that KK holds up against any range of hands I can give to quasi no matter what the read on AAAMAN.
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  #16  
Old 12-15-2005, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

[ QUOTE ]
99 is something like a 61% favorite against a top-35% range. A 61% favorite is good enough for me to take all the way at any stage of the tournament and anyone who suggests otherwise is either a +40% ROI player long-term at that level or they're being an idiot.

If the original raiser is not a super-LAG, no way I'm raising 99, as previously stated.

The other players at the table, in a 33, don't usually know the difference between a 3:1 call and a 1:1 call, so raising the absolute minimum that looks big is plenty to avoid going broke with JJ/AKo against a player behind with KK who (rightly) pushes over your raise.

I only threw 99 out there as an extreme to show that KK holds up against any range of hands I can give to quasi no matter what the read on AAAMAN.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you openraise that range if it was folded to you? Because you're still in EP/MP. Sucky position, a lot can happen behind you (like people going all-in with KK). I think it's better to only isolate LAGs when you're in late position, and then it would have to be a real LAG. Am I wrong here?
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  #17  
Old 12-15-2005, 05:40 AM
curtains curtains is offline
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Default Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

If you know that hes a very good/tight player, folding probably isnt that bad. In fact based on what you said it may even be correct, but Id really have to know the player myself to make such a statement. There are players where I would definitely fold KK if this were the action in front of me. Fortunately it hasnt come up yet.
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  #18  
Old 12-15-2005, 11:56 AM
1C5 1C5 is offline
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Default Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

Did you fold?

I have never folded KK preflp but should/could have a couple times.

One time was simliar to this hand in the 22s vs a good 2+2er.

I pretty much knew in my mind he had AA but I called anyway.
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  #19  
Old 12-15-2005, 12:13 PM
schwza schwza is offline
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Default Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's fine to think this, but it's probably a bad idea to actually fold. It could just as easily be QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm bored tonight and pissed off due to my own mental lapse so I'm gonna flame somebody and it may as well be you (sorry):

No, it can't be QQ. What good player does this near minimum pot odds reraise crap with QQ? Give me a break.

It miiiiight be AK (I've seen it played this way as sort of a semibluff) or little to nothing if he decided he wanted 85 chips. (I'm not saying there's a good chance of that, I'm saying it's theoretically possible.) But it's not QQ unless he misclicked.



[/ QUOTE ]

ok, got you to here...

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I'm probably not folding this, BTW.



[/ QUOTE ]

huh? are you hoping to chop with the other KK?
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  #20  
Old 12-15-2005, 12:17 PM
microbet microbet is offline
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Default Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

Aside from meaning he's not losing, why do you think being on the leaderboard means he's good?

I could fold QQ here, but I need to know him better than just being on the leaderboard to fold KK.

My best piece of info would be if I had a note on him. You don't have it this time, but if this went to showdown you should have one now. I've got a lot of notes that say "Played like AA, was AK" or "Played like AA, was AA" or some such.
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