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  #11  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:49 PM
MN_Mime MN_Mime is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

All that means is that they are correct to call down with their 4-flush. You're still the favorite with top pair (2:1 that the flush doesn't come). In the mean time, you're not extracting value from middle pairs and other missed hands.

I think it's weak to give up TP on monotone flops. What's your cutoff for betting this hand and why is it significantly better than OP's Q4o here?
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2005, 07:18 PM
MN_Mime MN_Mime is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

You're also probably not 50 VPIP. Work with me here... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2005, 08:39 PM
Slim Pickens Slim Pickens is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

[ QUOTE ]
i check/fold the flop, your hand is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it. You're putting in one bet to win six with a decent chance everyone will fold to your bet because the board is scary. Even against a flush draw, you're still a 2:1 favorite. The only thing you don't want to face is another queen, which won't take much from you on this board. I may not know a whole lot about this "limit" poker stuff, but this seems like a perfect place to pick up a small pot about 1/2 the time for one bet.
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  #14  
Old 12-13-2005, 03:54 PM
MN_Mime MN_Mime is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

I assume you fold to a raise? There are some opponents against whom I'd raise in MP/LP with any two here.

I agree that a bet is in order, but I think the reservation is that it's a real hard hand to *play* out-of-position against resistance (and calling is resistance enough).
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  #15  
Old 12-13-2005, 05:05 PM
Slim Pickens Slim Pickens is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

A call can really mean anything on that flop, and I can't say I fault anyone for wanting to check/fold the turn rather than bet/fold. I think the turn bet/fold is a better line with the fourth flush card falling, but if you want to chicken out, fine.

The check/fold line on the flop is the one I don't get. One of your opponents has to be much more sophisticated than the typical low-limit player to raise with any two representing a made hand they don't have. It is very easy to fold to a raise on the flop. It is very easy to fold to a raise on the turn. Your opponents are unlikely to just call you down on that board.
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  #16  
Old 12-13-2005, 08:15 PM
MN_Mime MN_Mime is offline
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Default Re: clarkmeistering the turn?

Well, I don't get it either but some of those guys talk a better game than *I* play so there's probably something to it.

I suspect that it's just a multi-tabling concession. It's such a difficult spot to play (reads and analysis for which we've had several days luxury to look at) that it's probably superior to pick a better spot and look for more ABC hands on which to make your money. Why put yourself in this position when there are so many other spots where people are just trying to give money away?

I hate money, I guess. I bet this flop. I need a read to determine my later action and I probably check/fold the turn without one.
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