Oceans 11 $200 NL Tourney Report

[sdplayerb]

Today I played the above mentioned tourney, some interesting hands, so I thought i'd write it up.
One note, not last time, but the time before we chopped at 15 people (then played for $1200 more for first) for $2K+ each, then another deal with 4 people, I took 2nd and $2300.

We start with 2000 chips, 25-25 blinds, 4th level is 100-200 25ante (i like antes).

I look over the table and recognize a few players. Player to my right I think is pretty good. Another guy I can't remember where I know him from, but it is bugging me (this will come up more later).

I play tight early hoping for a hand to win a big pot with.

I will do this post in two parts. First one just say the hands Part two I will state my thinking on the hand, and finally the argument I had and talking over hand 1 with the player next to me.


Hand 1: 2nd time in the SB and still haven't played a hand, get a couple of limpers and I check with K7.

KK8 flop two hearts. I decide to bet out (100) hoping they think I am full of it as I don’t see AK, KQ in this hand limping. Two callers.
If there is another heart I will shut down.
A T (non heart), I'm not letting them draw cheap.
But one note: the first player of the two (who limped early) I saw earlier I believed called in the SB with QQ with one or two limpers, flopped a Q (no overs) and checked it all the way. So I know this guy will trap and won't let him trap me.
So I bet 400, which is about the size of the pot. The trapper calls..i know don't like my kicker.
Q on the river..I had already decided to check and make a decision unless there was a 7.
He bets 900, he has about 400 left, and I'd only have about 300 left.

I fold. (much more on this in part II)

Hand 2: We are now at level 2, 25-50, and I am around 1,300 in chips. Two limpers to me in the SB..I complete with 74. The jerk is the 2nd limper and the BB is very loose/calling station asian player. I have a little writeup on the various types of asian players, in my view (some are great, some aren’t).
The BB (asian player) make it 100 to go. We all call..what a useless raise. I think I said under my breath, make a real raise so I can get out of this.
Flop come T94 rainbow. I check, he bets 100 into a 400 pot, the jerk calls. I figure heck, I get a 4 or 7 I could win a huge hand, I am almost get regular odds now too. I call.
7d (now two diamonds). 700 pot, I have 1100 left.
I pushin. They both call!
I fill up on the river. The jerk shows A T8 (I think maybe 2 diamonds). Never saw the asian player’s cards.
I am now around 4,000!
And the jerk is down low on chips.

Hand 3: The jerk has made a comeback and is near 1000 chips.
He min raises to 100 from early position. I don’t put him on a big hand and make it 300 with AQ. He calls. I am going to push on most flops.
Now, my usual rule is don’t bluff at J or T high flops since many play JT.
J high flop..he checks, I put him in for his last 675..he calls, AJ. Crap.
I am around 3,000.


In between I believe I stole with AK, AJ..got reraised with A7 on the button and threw it away.

Hand 4: 50-100, around 3,200
A limper to me in the SB, I have J7 and decide to call. Kind of stupid. I did it since I a guy I play a homegame with says he loves the hand, and I know it is ridiculous. But it is less than 2% of my stack.
T98 flops, two diamonds. I am hoping one of them caught something big, but I’m not giving a free draw. I bet 250.
They both call. Next card is something really low. I think awhile and bet 1,000..they fold. So many draws out there, and I don’t have the nut str.
Back at 3,700.

Hand 5: 100-200 25 ante, around 2800.
Get AK in EP. Make it 600. Get a caller. K92r flop.
I bet 1,000, he pushes in..I call. We know we both have AK, and we do.

Hand 6: 100-200 25 ante, around 3,000
New player with a stack around 6-7K makes it 1,000 from UTG+2.
I am in MP and get QQ, I pushin.
Folded to him, he takes about 1 second and calls..I know I am crushed.
AA for him.
Flop comes Qxx all spades, he has the A of spades. I make it through and am over 6K. Phew.
Amazingly I have now cracked AA my last two times against them in B&M tourneys.
He says he has had AA cracked twice today.

I finally get moved to a new table…too bad, I was about to start raising a lot.

Hand 7: 200-400 50 ante, around 6,000
My 4th or 5th hand at the new table. And I really need to take a whiz. I am UTG+2. I decide to look at my cards early and run to the bathroom if I have nothing.
QQ
Old woman is UTG and makes it 1400 with a big stack.
I flatcalled. Flop with 542r (or 3). She waited about 1 second and pushed in.
I folded.
(more on this in the 2nd post)

Hand 8: 200-400 50 ante, around 4,600.
This was the next hand. I am UTG+1, I believe we are 7 handed. Against a lot of players I would have pushed last hand due to this.
So 7 handed I make it 1,200 to go with AQs (AQ sucks, I want everyone to fold). SB pushes allin for anther 175. I obviously call and say “AK?”, no KK (the other most likely hand to have me beat). No luck, I am down to 3,200 losing all my stack in 2 hands (I think vs KK twice).

When in the BB I get a walk which helps.
Then nothing for a long time. I am willing to raise if first to act with a lot of stuff. But somebody is always raising. In part 2 I detail a bad situation that occurred in a hand I wasn’t in.

Hand 9: 200-400 50 ante around 1,900
Just getting nothing, just waiting to pushin. We are 7 handed.
In MP I pick up a monster..94. Soon my raises won’t be folded to. I pushin.
Everyone folds to the BB who had the KK against my AQ. She starts contemplating. Crud. She has a bad hand I know, but is going to call. I stand up trying to act like I have a big hand. She calls (she had a huge stack now).
QT (I think suited)..terrible call.
9 on the flop, 4 on the river..i am above 4,500.

Hand 10: 300-600 75 ante around 3,600
Now we are 9 handed, in MP I get AT. I had been careful not to pushin with crap since I have such a bad image from the 94.
But I have to pushin here, I’ll be crippled after the blinds.
The button calls..AK (it is always AK when I have A something on a pushin). No helped, I am down to around 1,800.

Hand 11: 300-600 75 ante around 1,500
Get A4s in early position. Pushin.
Get called by 55 (same guy with AK). No help.
Good luck everybody.

Started with 191 people (only paying 9 though). Were down to about 50-60 players.

[sdplayerb]

Hand 1 (flop 3 Ks)

This is a tough one on the river. The reason I checked was hoping he’d check too. I don’t see him calling if he is beat. And I feel I can make a good read.
So I start to really take my time after his bet.
The guy that I said I couldn’t remember how I knew him starts bitching about it, I said call the clock. Others agree..but he is really being a dick. I say, well it is my whole tourney and a $200 entry, so i'll take my time.

Back to my thinking..I don't see this guy calling with Kx with the flush draw out there, he'd raise me. I don't see AK or KQ since we limped. I don't see him bluffing and leaving a small amount of chips on a bluff, as he'd be done. Plus he is a trapper.
I throw them away, I put him on 88 for a flopped boat hoping somebody would hit their flush.
The BB says he had K5, so there was no K. I am 90% sure he had the 88.

I apologized to the other players for taking so long (had to be 3-4 minutes)...and then started arguing with that one guy.

I even talked nicely and he made some comment about stop being a prick or something like that when I was talking to another guy about the rule on calling the clock.
Finally I say to the guy that won the hand “so you had 88 huh?” People were joking around. I often ask people their hand, kidding around, knowing they won’t say..and inevitably somebody saying you wouldn’t believe me if I told you.
Then they arguer says “you can’t ask his hand..you can’t talk about hands”. I tell him yes you can, the rule is you can’t during the hand..he is getting mad. The tourney director happens to walk by, I ask her. She agrees with me almost like it is so obvious. I tell him he is wrong once again.

He goes to the food area..I say “oh yeah, now I remember him. He is always an ahole”. I had played with him in some smaller tourneys there over a year before and he is an terrible to everybody.

More at the bottom on my discussing the hand with a good player on my right.

Hand 2: (turned two pairs 7s and 4s)
I want one caller, not two as there are a lot of draws.
I figure if I push they will think I am bluffing. I peg them both as callers and I know the jerk wants to beat me.
Worked out well.

More at the bottom on my view on the different types of asian players.

Hand 5: (AK, K flop)
You can debate if I should have slowplayed it here. I thought he had something like TT or 99 and wouldn’t bet at it. So why give him a free shot at a turned set. But he could have had AJ or AQ. There was also the possibility of his having a free chance at a gutshot. It was a big pot, so I didn’t want to let him draw for free.

Hand 7 (QQ flat call)
I’ve seen her in one hand, in which she made a strong play on the flop and got respect.
I read her as a decent player, despite appearances. But it was a $200 buyin. I tend to believe older players are tighter. And I hate facing UTG raises.
I read her for a big hand by how she bet.
I really put her on JJ at the lowest.
Again, I trust my reads. When I think I’m beat, I’m correct a very high % of the time.
After over a minute I decide to flat call. If no A or K on the flop (since AK is one of the hands I read her for, but I really thought she had AA or KK) and a check I will pushin.
A low flop, I’m hoping for that check as I don’t see her slowplaying (which was part of the reason I called as I thought I could get a very good idea based on what she did).
As I said, it took her about 1-2 seconds to pushin. It looked to me like she just couldn’t take the excitement anymore. No way in my mind did she have AK. And with how long I took she had to know I had a hand. Only thing I could beat was JJ.
I threw it away.

Of course I had to ask how big was her hand. She said it was big but I can’t tell you. I said I wouldn’t believe you. She said, I do not lie.
I think she had KK.

At 15x the BB, you really shouldn’t be calling raises. I think this was a place where you can. I’ve read some of Paul Phillips postings, and this appeared such a situation.

Also, if I RR preflop, I am risking 6K chips to win 2,400 (figuring if she calls I am killed or against AK).

I think I could have played hands 1 & 7 different. Maybe a few others. But I was very happy with how I played. I made two huge, and I do believe correct, laydowns.

Additional info:

1. So I started talking to the guy next to me who I believed was a good player (looks a lot like Chris Bigler) about my first laydown right after as I was a little on tilt between the yelling and not being sure on the move.
Ends up he played the WSOP this year, was over 100K chips and lost to AQ with KK or would have been in great shape. He just missed the money.
We both agreed it’d be a bad mistake for that guy to call with a good K with the flush draw out there (but he could be bad, but then we found out the asian player had a K).
He agreed about his slowplaying/trapping.
He at first said he thinks I should have bet at the river so he couldn’t push me out. But I said if I bet, I’m committed and I’d rather make the read.
He agreed with my logic and thinks I am likely correct the guy did have 88.
I’d pay $20 to know what he and the old lady had.
2. Shortly after my AQ beat to put me at 3,200 a new player sat to my left. A younger player I’ve played with that seems like a smart kid, decent player.
The old lady raised from UTG (was not 1,400 this time)..before I mucked he says allin, but semi-garbled (I did have on ear buds though). Somebody said wait. He is next to the dealer, after I muck while he is going for his chips his cards are pushed out just a little bit and the dealer mucks them!!
He goes nuts..he said I said allin. Dealer doesn’t seem apologetic and says you acted out of turn (what does that have to do with it). The kid doesn’t argue all that much, so I said I guess it wasn’t that big a hand..he said big enough.
Next player calls or raises, the woman that beat me with the KK goes allin, the old lady thinks then goes allin (basically has too), third players calls.
KK lady has 99
Old lady has 88 (yes, from UTG, but I did not read strength this time)
Other player has AJ

Kid next to me says he had AJ also.

Small flop, J on the turn, 8 on the river. 8 is the fourth club, 99 has one spade, she wins a huge main pot. The kid claims he had A or spades.

Dealer kept arguing about being out of turn.

3. My theory on the different types of asian players. FYI, In no ways do I think they are bad players!!! I live in San Diego. I would guess we have the highest concentration of asian players, in particular based on the being from different countries.
I’ve been at final tables where I was the only white boy.

I break them into three types, and include my theory on country of origin (again all in good fun)

1. Crazy/loose/action player (Vietnamese/Filipino)- Many of the best players in the world are Vietnamese. In general, they play a lot more hands preflop and are very dangerous. The good ones will play very well postflop. The bad ones play too loose then play top pair no kicker for all their chips.

2. Tight/overly Tight (Chinese)- Usually very bright. Went to UCSD, UCLA, or Berkeley (I live in socal) Will only play best hands. Unless they flop big you can take them off their hand very easily. If they bluff, they under bluff. If they are playing the hand, just stay away. You aren’t getting paid off unless you flop a set..and then they better have AA.

3. Loose, bad (I’m guessing rich Japanese)- You know them. They call everything. You can’t bluff them ever. They drive you insane with their luck against you, but then eventually lose all their chips, but usually not to you. Call an allin with Q5. Just wait for a big hand, they will call, no matter what they have..probably A high. They just don’t want to be bluffed out. Don’t consider bluffing them.
The player in the BB in my full house hand was clearly #3.

#1 is the most dangerous in the earlier stages of the tourney. # 2 is during the middle stages. I can now usually figure out who I am playing against very quickly, and it helped today as the asian player gave me over 1,500 in chips…and I never held a real hand preflop against him and he was to my left (which is good)

[DOTTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 7 (QQ flat call)
I’ve seen her in one hand, in which she made a strong play on the flop and got respect.
I read her as a decent player, despite appearances. But it was a $200 buyin. I tend to believe older players are tighter. And I hate facing UTG raises.
I read her for a big hand by how she bet.
I really put her on JJ at the lowest.
Again, I trust my reads. When I think I’m beat, I’m correct a very high % of the time.
After over a minute I decide to flat call. If no A or K on the flop (since AK is one of the hands I read her for, but I really thought she had AA or KK) and a check I will pushin.
A low flop, I’m hoping for that check as I don’t see her slowplaying (which was part of the reason I called as I thought I could get a very good idea based on what she did).
As I said, it took her about 1-2 seconds to pushin. It looked to me like she just couldn’t take the excitement anymore. No way in my mind did she have AK. And with how long I took she had to know I had a hand. Only thing I could beat was JJ.
I threw it away.


[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how long you were on this table but just because she got respect when she bet a flop doesn't mean she's a tight player or a good one at that.

If you're capable to put her on AA or KK because she pushed in on a ragged flop you're giving up way too much, and should just throw your queens away pre flop. Even if she’s a tight player I can see her doing this with a number of hands that you dominate at this point.

Just from my experience in live play, but when a player pushes in quickly it means they have squat and are trying to look strong, but that of course isn't true for every player.

[sdplayerb]

I literally had been there 5 hands.
I can see many people saying I was wrong on this hand. If asked a question on this hand the answer would have to be, it depends.

My read before the flop was the she likely had AA or KK.
Plus, I didn't see her making a move at the pot without a real hand (ie not with A high).
I do agree that many people would have. I would have pushed in with pretty much any hand in that situation.
But, she was UTG, I don't see her having squat to start with.
I also made it pretty apparent that I had real hand preflop..thus making her pushin tougher.

I had two reads on her that she was very very strong. In that situation that is all I had to go on.
That, plus this being a $200 buyin, not a small buyin, I just don't see her personally risking getting crippled with a good stack on a pure bluff.

I definitely could be wrong, she may have had JJ. But, I'm pretty sure I was right on my read.
And I could also see a point being made for my throwing away QQ, and I came really close (and obviously which I had now). In my post I gave my reasons for why I thought calling with QQ and playing it from there was a better move.

And that was why this was a very interesting hand, in my opinion.

[sdplayerb]

so i was at oceans11 today for a morning tourney then
So I saw the guy I layed down my 3 Kings against and said you got to tell me, you had 88 right?
He said no, somebody was lying (since that asian guy said he had K5, i believe he was lying also since no way HE lays that down). So the guy had KT, was ahead all the way and hit a fullhouse at the river.
He was afraid his kicker was no good until the river, that is why he didn't raise to get rid of the flush draw.
He said he's surprised i didn't call .
So the slowplayer again slowplayed in the tourney today, KK..and got busted by two pair..terrible, especially since so many people were limping at the table.

Then i saw the lady the hand where i threw away QQ on the flop. She was playing 5/5 NL..i knew she wasn't a random player. So when she was walking by i asked if she remembered what she had..i replayed the hand then said AA or KK right (i thought KK, she'd check AA)..she said, yeah, when you got knocked out i meant to come around and tell you, i had KK.
Great read, only lost 22% of my stack. Next time i'll go all the way and fold it (only against UTG really, or a rock in UTG+1).

So two good laydowns, still got knocked out, so all for naught.
But cashed the next day at viejas. Never had to make a real laydown.