Craps

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Why does everyone think they can get rich in this game? Especially grinding it out with nickel cheques. I used to deal and supervise craps. All "precision shooters" lost like the others. Scoblete and his "crew" played at my table several times, and lost just like the other suckers.
The only reason we put heat on these guys was because they brought the game to a grinding halt.

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Because people are stupid.

[Double Down]

Why do you people refuse to accept the possibility that precision shooting works? Is it because it cannot be proven mathematically? Well, for what it's worth, it cannot be DISproven mathematically like betting progressions. For one weekend, I was witness to guys throwing the dice for 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour at a time, and these were not exceptions. These long rolls came at a much greater occurrence than what the statistics would show (which I believe the average roll is around 8 throws before crapping out).
Yes, I too like to see the cold, hard numbers before giving anything absolute merit, so I would not bet everything I own on whether or not precision shooting works, but I will say that what I saw that weekend was pretty incredible and the gentlemen running it gave me no reason to believe that what was occurring was unusual. It was the norm for them.

Considering you guys have very little or no experience with precision shooting, it's ignorant of you to dismiss it so quickly. I'm done talking about it. If you are interested, PM me and I can pass along some info. If not, please try to make arguments that have some substance. To the guy who was a craps dealer and watched Scoblete lose, who cares? That's like saying, "Counting isn't for real, Stanford Wong was at my table and he lost a bundle." It's totally fallacious logic that just because you were witness to a couple losing sessions we should dismiss an entire type of advantage play.

Pay me $5 and I will waste my time explaining to you why this shooting thing is a bunch of BS. Or, you can find your own answer and realize it for yourself at no cost.

[SheetWise]

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Pay me $5 and I will waste my time explaining to you why this shooting thing is a bunch of BS. Or, you can find your own answer and realize it for yourself at no cost.

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Or, great cost. Whatever.

[SheetWise]

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Why do you people refuse to accept the possibility that precision shooting works? Is it because it cannot be proven mathematically?

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Pretty much.
The drop, win and hold play into my belief as well.

[stickman]

Watching shooters roll for over the weekend does not justify precision shooting. Your sample size was not big enough. Ever hear of a statistical anomily?

[Double Down]

You have got to be kidding. The drop, win, and hold is proof that it doesn't work? Just like in blackjack, the VAST majority of craps players aren't precision shooting, and the ones that are aren't doing it correctly. And those that are, it's still possible that those that do aren't bankrolled enough for the swings. That's like saying that the drop, win, and hold at blackjack is proof that counting doesn't work. Sheetwise, I'm surprised that this idiotic logic is coming from you. To the person who said that a weekend of shooting craps isn't enough data, yes, I completely agree. Completely! In fact, at this seminar, I was hoping that someone there had compiled data from their results so that I could see something more concrete and long term, but there was no such data to my disappointment. But I will say that the way that the course teachers reacted during the rolls made me think that it wasn't some anomaly. These guys were used to seeing these long rolls on a regular basis.

[SheetWise]

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That's like saying that the drop, win, and hold at blackjack is proof that counting doesn't work. Sheetwise, I'm surprised that this idiotic logic is coming from you.

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What I said was -

"The drop, win and hold play into my belief as well."

It's interesting to note that very few casinos believed blackjack could be beat until the win and hold numbers proved them wrong (ah, the good old days).

Dice setting is unlike card counting, and other strategies that can be simulated. I've never seen a large sample of data from a controlled study. Even then, the range of skill in individual shooters has to be wide.

As I've said before -- I don't know. I simply believe it's unlikely. But then, I've also watched close up magicians perform, and even though I knew what they were doing, I couldn't detect it. It's sure possible.

[SheetWise]

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Yes, I too like to see the cold, hard numbers before giving anything absolute merit ...

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Given that setting dice (as advertised) is such a highly personalized skill, I'm not sure that simply recording sessions would resolve anything. If the shooter can't do it today -- it's possible that he could yesterday. If the shooter can't do it ever -- that doesn't mean someone else can't. What I would like to see is slow-motion video of the dice behaving as predicted, and compare it to video of random throws. If there was a significant correllation between the prediction and the recorded behavior of the dice, and the recorded patterns (bounce, spin, etc.) deviated from the random patterns -- I'd be a believer.

The price for being stupid has gone up. Now $10.