KK, 2allins on the flop

[sdplayerb]

Just got back from Oceans 11, playing 5/5NL.
Been there about 3 hours, been dealt nothing but up $100 due to playing well against a semi-maniac and making tough calls on him.

That semi-maniac limps in in the middle (he has played everything, including T2 for a $60 raise, then won, he is somewhere around $300 i see, but is way down, but not rattled).
I get KK in the cutoff and make it $25..I feel fine playing against him.
The button calls, he is also very loose aggressive, recently raising with 52, and calling a lot preflop.

983 two spades (3 is one of them, I have the K of spades).

Check by the limper, I bet out $60.
Coldcaller says raise (he has around what I do) before he says how much the limper pushes in his whole stack, which is $230 total.
What the heck.

The original raiser is told he has to make it at least $120..after 10-20 seconds he makes it $250, limper is allin.
Now it is to me.

What is your play and why?

SD

[AZK]

So it sounds like you are playing with two maniacs who could have anywhere from the absolute nuts/nut draws to 72o, that being said, you are likely ahead here, but do you really feel like risking most/all of your stack on an overpair? I'd probably pick a better time. From what it sounds like, you aren't going to make your money in this game from KK, more from low pocket pairs that flop sets and suited connectors....just lie and wait for them to come in...

[SlyAK]

As long as you have enough money to buy back in I would call here. You could easily be against straight/flush draws, or top pair since these guys will play about anything. I think a call is +EV. If you dont have the money to buy back in, fold and wait for a better spot.

Sly

[sdplayerb]

After about a minute, I folded. I would have called either of them alone in a second as I half expected one to make a move on me.
But with both in, I couldn't, at the time, see how I was ahead. And even if I wasn't ahead, I couldn't be much better than a 45-50% favorite.
I was sure the raiser was on a draw, JT or flush.
I just couldn't figure what the second player had, and how quickly his chips got in (even before the raiser said how much he raised) really threw me off. Plus even after he showed that strength the original raiser still put him in, showing strength.
I said they are loose aggressive, but was moreso preflop. They aren't throwing away $200+ on crap.
But my gut was telling me to call, and my gut is right about 90% of the time.

So the rest of the hand. (they don't flip over their cards, this ain't a tourney)
K on the turn, I yell "crap".
9c on the river, making the flush, but filling me up.

The original raiser had AQc..the other player was also on a club draw, which was the best case scenario for me.
But, was very unlikely they both had clubs and two clubs flop (with my having one, so 2 of the 8 remaining clubs flopped).

I would have won about $650 on the hand (even more considering my $85 in there), which stung.

Now, I do think I made a mistake not calling.
I was afraid of the allin caller, but should not have been. He wasn't going to slowplay the hands he'd have me beat with due to the flush draw, and I was not pegged as overaggressive.
Also, he would have raised preflop with 99 or 88.
Yes 93 and 83 were possible with him, but not all that likely. So 98 and 33 were the only hands that had me beat, and again, I don't see him slowplaying.

I was getting 2.3-1 on my money, and if I come in 2nd to the allin caller, I would almost break even on the final call ($130 more each for me and the raiser on the $300 more push).

So, once again I realize I should go with my gut.
I usually think it out longer and figure what hands people could have. Here I was trying to figure out how could I possibly be ahead.

The player who won said "I completely misread you. I never put you on a big pair. I thought my raise would just get you both to fold. I got really lucky".

I do not think my mistake was a big one. Most scenarios I still am a 45-50% favorite at the very very best.

My being more of a tourney player still defaults me to protect my chips. And while I am winning a lot at this game, it is still an issue on huge hands. But it has allowed me to fold AA at the right time. And I still made numerous good calls with 2nd and 3rd pair.

[sdplayerb]

This is what I was thinking.
They weren't calling allin with crap, but could have had 83.
And I agree, I don't want to play for all my chips with just a pair..I did know at least one had the nut draw (jt or flush).
And there were many better times. I was up $100 with crap hands.

[sdplayerb]

This is a very interesting post. For the first 30 seconds after I read it, I thought "what does that have to do with it".
One minute later I realized "a lot".
I am definitely +EV in this game, so by not risking my stack here it allows me to keep playing, which has value.

For me, do I buy back:
1. No. I'm not going to lose $600 in a day.
2. Actually I knew I was leaving in about 15-20 mins as it was must move, I was up next, and I didn't feel like learning the other table as I wasn't going to play more than an hour more.

I should have ascertained the allin caller better. I know realize he was trying to catchup and he was a big variance player.