Playing Omaha Hi-Lo 8s or Better

[Uncle Ves]

I use to play Holdem for a number of years for a living. I visited AC for the first time in a couple of years and found the professional players that were playing Holdem during my time are now solely playing Omaha for a living stating that it is more predictable and rarely play Holdem. Is Omaha a better game and what will I have to do to learn Omaha.

[DPCondit]

Do you have any experience with high-low in general? Have you ever played lowball?

If you're like me when I first started playing Omaha, the answer to both questions is no.

Ray Zee's book on High-Low Poker is widely considered to be the best book on the subject, and I would agree with that. At first, his book might go over your head a little, but you should find it more useful as you gain experience.

Steve Badger has a website deals mostly with Omaha (email me and I'll get you the link, just click my name, and send private message), and online poker. I recommend this website for understanding a lot of the baic concepts and misconceptions that people have at the table.

There are various point count systems which should help you get a good idea of what starting hands to play, as that seems to be a confusing issue for most beginners, however, I never use point counts myself, but I did try them out when I was first starting. Once you get a good idea of what hands to play, you probably want to get away from any kind of point count, and instead concentrate on WHY you are playing certain hands, in certain positions, in certain ways, against certain types of opponents.

There is software from Wilson Software, Turbo Omaha Hi-Lo for Windows V3, which I recommend. It may not resemble the games you find yourself in very closely, unless you tweak the profiles and lineups a bit, but it is good practice at what kind of hands to expect, and the simulation capability is quite helpful. Don't assume that you will beat the live games just because you beat the computer lineup, and don't assume that your live opponents will be as easy to predict.

Another book that helped me was TJ Cloutier's Omaha book, but I found it helped me make money in tournaments, but don't use it much for ring games. Of course, TJ Cloutier is a highly succesful tournament player, so it is no surprise that his strategies translate better to tournaments.

I often hear that Omaha is a game of starting hands, well yes and no, yes good starting selection is very important, but playing on the flop and beyond is just as important. In a loose low limit game, you usually have to have the nuts, or a draw to the nuts to stay with your hand after the flop. Of course, that is not always the case in tighter and trickier games, but you will learn about that when you get to that point. But to start out, you have to learn how to throw your hand away quickly if the flop doesn't hit you really hard.

Just sit down and deal out some hands and figure out what the nuts are. It seems a lot of beginners have trouble figuring out what the best hand is, or what kind of hands to expect from your opponents. Practice this, either with a deck of cards, or on Turbo Omaha.

After you've done that, go sit down in a game and get your clock cleaned, at least that is what happened to me the first several times I played. You keep studying up, and you will figure it out. Don't go on tilt, be patient, this is a river game, where just about everybody is on some sort of a draw, just accept it or you are mincemeat. Suckouts are the name of game.

Yes, I find Omaha to be much more predictable and profitable than Hold em, but I had to lose my butt a few times first. Even with all the drawing, and the suckouts, I still find it rather predictable, the key is always think in terms of EV, and just don't worry about how any particular hand, or set of hands work out. The EV can be huge if you don't attach yourself to individual hand results.

Good luck,
Don

[Herb N.]

O/8 is a fun game but at the limit that I play[from 6/12 up to 15/30]I found my win rate much higher at H.E.I believe this is do to the fact that you play twice as many hands plus I found novice players tend to shy away from 0/8 but believe H.E. is easy.There is some truth to this the first couple learning steps in H.E. are realitively small compared to 0/8.having said that I still sit down at 0/8 quite often.I think its good to learn several games.The above post {Condit}gave alot of good advice,may I add that H.E. is a game of position,it's a game of power and knocking players[pushing]out of pots.O/8 is a game of {pulling}getting players to enter pots with weaker hands than yours this is one of the reasons the players tend to be more friendly,O/8 is a game of draws,and redraws.A quick example might be : you play Ad 2d 4x 5x..I play:Ax 2x 7x Kx. The flop comes:3d 6d kx You can see that I have the best hand but I would trade with you any day..Again condit's advice is good get Z's book Wilsons software is great,But it's advisor stinks!Welcome to the club{O/8}Have Fun!! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[chaos]

Be careful about playing too many starting hands! With four cards you have six 2-card combinations.

I think I play even less starting hands in Omaha/8 than in Hold'em. Remember the object of the game is to scoop the whole pot. Look for starting hands with this potential.

[Uncle Ves]

WHAT ARE THE STARTING HANDS HAVING THE POTENTIAL OF SCOOPING THE WHOLE POT?

[Uglyowl]

You want hands that can win both low and hi. To win low the best hands are a2xx a3xx 234x. To win high you want for example your ace to be suited to win with a flush. An example of a scoop for me the other day was deal was a2jj (don't remember if anything was suited)... flop was j85 rainbow. Anyhow board was 458jk (no flush possible). I scooped the pot with hi (trips -jacks) and low (nut low) a2458. Just an example.

[Lin Sherman]

My own opinion is that, given identical limits and opponents of similar levels of ability, a really good player will do better playing Hold'em. The downside is that Hold'em requires a larger bankroll. Omaha 8/b is attractive to wannabe pros who found they couldn't hack it at Hold'em or who are chronically underfunded. However, Omaha 8/b, at least in low- and mid-limit ring games, doesn't give the expert player much chance to use the poker skills that make an expert an expert (a short-handed game is another matter). In Hold'em, there are a lot of close decisions, even in low-limits, and close decisions are where the first-rate player has a lot of his or her edge.

Another problem with Omaha 8/b is that the games are often very slow. A Hold'em game of similar limits will often get in 10-15 more hands per hour.

That being said, it's probably worth learning how to play Omaha 8/b if the games in your area are exceptionally good. Very often, the worst players in the card room can be found at the Omaha 8/b tables. This is one reason why wannabe pros who couldn't hack it at Hold'em can manage to eke out a living at Omaha/8.

Lin