Final Table Aggression?

I don't normally post in forums but I thought I would see if you could comment / advise on the following hand from Saturday:

The final table of the $10,000 guaranteed tourney on Pacific Poker, we were down to 5 players from a starting field of 652. Blinds at this stage stood at 7,500 and 15,000.

I was on the button with 150,000 chips (approx numbers). Small blind had 250,000, big blind 220,000. First position was equal to me and there was a short stack in P2 with 50,000.

The action went fold, fold to me and I looked at the AsTs and raised it to 45,000 trying to steal the blinds. Small and big blind both smooth called.

With a flop of (5c 6h Td) both blinds checked to me and I decided to lead out for 30,000 with top pair, top kicker. The small blind then popped it up another 30,000 and the big blind folded.

I would welcome your input as to what you would have done in this situation.

PS: I decided to push all-in for my remaining 75,000 or so and ran into two Queens in the small blind, finishing fifth. The more I think about it in retrospect, the more I believe I should have folded and waited until the short stack in P2 busted out but I figured I wasn't there to score positions - just to go for the win. Anyway, your input would be very much appreciated.

I'd think about with what range they'd smoothcall here. The SB smoothcalling is going to be out of position, with the BB still to act preflop, and the BB has enough chips to cripple the SB. So I'd think smoothcalling a fifth of his chips probably indicates a lot of strength.

Do steal blinds et cetera. But tough flop to get away from.

ATs is a legitimate hand to play 5 handed and in position. You just got unlucky to run into that hand. You were pot committed and getting pretty good odds so there was no way you were getting away from that pot, even if you saw his cards you still had 5 outs to beat him.

But honestly with two smooth callers its possible that I would have checked that hand down on the flop to possibly see a turn. Its a tough call. Be happy to finish where you did though, others of us arent as lucky [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

i may of done the same as yourself but i have come up with an arguement for thought.after SB reraise what could beat you that he smooth called with. PPs more likely cause of the reraise. over ten or equal beats you, and lower PP could of made a set. i dont see a reraise from any smaller pairs. also the small blind is value beting ( i feel) with the reraise almost telling u ur beat so what im saying is that ur can fold looking for a better opportunity later on.

Any think this isnt a valid point?

[Matador225]

No way you can get away from this. You should have been even more pot committed if you had bet more than 30,000, which you should have. Unfortunately you ran into a big hand.

[ QUOTE ]
The action went fold, fold to me and I looked at the AsTs and raised it to 45,000 trying to steal the blinds. Small and big blind both smooth called.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't question the raise, but I question the logic of trying to steal versus either raising for value to get more money in the pot or raising to get head up on only one opponent.

If stealing is really the objective, then at that point with everyone on or close to the short stack due to the size of the blinds, then I have to let people know that I'm serious about stealing and push all in.

ATs first in in a 3-handed game is a relatively strong hand, that can improve easily, but can also be beaten easily. If I'm not out to steal, then I'm out to keep one or both opponents in the pot. In that case, your raise of 2x or 3x the BB seems like a decent play.

Forgetting about the QQ for a second and thinking about the hand, you bet 45K into a pot of about 25K, offering the SB a little less than 2:1 and after the the SB call, the BB gets a little better than 3:1. Both could cold call with a very wide range of hands there.

You are putting in about 1/3 of your stack, almost tying you to the pot with any kind of call. So they almost have to put you on some sort of legitimate hand.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the flop bet except the size. You bet 30K into about 135K, offering both opponents about 4.5:1 to hit any draw they might need, even higher if they are thinking in terms of implied odds, getting your whole stack if they hit.

I think you are either committed to your top pair being good or you aren't. If you are then you have to push to minimize pot odds and negate implied odds.

In your case, after betting 30K and having the SB reraise, then I'm still not sure that I put SB on a bigger pair. Sure he could have it, but he could have check-raised to push out the BB and improve his chances by going head-up versus 3-way.

The question is whether or not you are going to let you hand go with only 70K left in your stack after having invested 80K in the hand.

Any consideration of fold or push on the opponent's flop raise, would have to be determined on what you felt the opponent might have.

If you think your Tens are good at that point, then there is nothing wrong with the push.

If you think the Tens weren't good at that point, then what opponent hands make them not good and what are your odds against those hands. If you think the Tens aren't good, then the opponent has AA, KK, QQ, JJ or a baby set. You're virtually drawing dead against either set and AA. You don't have enough odds to call against the other 3 big pairs.

A laydown there would have been very tough. I'm not sure I could have done it. What if SB has a smaller Ten like KTs, or JTo?

Conclusion for me is that I don't necessarily see anything wrong with the plays as they went out, but it is worth thinking about the rationale and logic behind the plays. In other words, did you get to the right decision with the right thought, the right decision with the wrong thought, etc.?