#1 advanced concept I wished I hadn't learned - Page 3

#21 12-07-2005, 02:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]

You cant analyze a situation by thinking things like, "how often will he be dealt AA UG vs AA on the button". We have more information than that, we need to incorporate it. We know that, once we see a player raise UG, 52% of his hands will be strong enough to call. Vs. a button raise, which he will only have a calling hand 25% of the time.

So, although the number of times he will be dealt a 'calling hand' is technically the same. For all intensive purposes, he is 2x as likely to have a calling hand UG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. My point was that especially in the early stages of low buy-in tournies, many players' opening ranges are not so dramatically different UTG versus on the button. I was cautioning OP that he shouldn't simply say, "That raise is coming from the button, I'm pushing any 2, he'll fold 75% of the time". You need to observe the player and get a sense of what HIS opening range from the button is, not what it would optimally be or what yours is.

betgo · #22 12-07-2005, 02:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You cant analyze a situation by thinking things like, "how often will he be dealt AA UG vs AA on the button". We have more information than that, we need to incorporate it. We know that, once we see a player raise UG, 52% of his hands will be strong enough to call. Vs. a button raise, which he will only have a calling hand 25% of the time.

So, although the number of times he will be dealt a 'calling hand' is technically the same. For all intensive purposes, he is 2x as likely to have a calling hand UG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. My point was that especially in the early stages of low buy-in tournies, many players' opening ranges are not so dramatically different UTG versus on the button. I was cautioning OP that he shouldn't simply say, "That raise is coming from the button, I'm pushing any 2, he'll fold 75% of the time". You need to observe the player and get a sense of what HIS opening range from the button is, not what it would optimally be or what yours is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeh, fairly early in low buyin a lot of players are not raising that much more loosely from late position. This is partly because they are not good players and partly because it is difficult to steal.

Early on a raise tends to represent a big hand and a limp a marginal or speculative hand (or a big pair). To a certain extent this is tur even in major tournaments. Early on there is limping and raising, but not much blind stealing. This is partly because the blinds aren't worth stealing early on.

Some passive players will open complete from the SB unless they have a real raising hand. Sometimes I get in trouble reraising the SB from the BB with A8 or something, not realizing that most hands SB is raising with have A8 crushed.

schwza · #23 12-07-2005, 12:22 PM

i have the same problem except i have 85s and 33.

schwza · #24 12-07-2005, 12:26 PM

i know this isn't really your point, but a good player will call a resteal with more hands if he's in LP rather than utg.

#25 12-07-2005, 12:27 PM

eliminate MP from your resteal attempts (most times barring reads) unless you have at least a semi-premium hand. If you include MP in your resteal attempts, you are basically not giving credit to over HALF the table for having a hand.

Black Aces 518 · #26 12-07-2005, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this hand is typical of what happens when I resteal. Stacks are much deeper, and I had a top 3 hand but the principle seems the same.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) converter

SB (t23915)
BB (t8080)
UTG (t56779)
UTG+1 (t21602)
MP1 (t8090)
MP2 (t13875)
MP3 (t25655)
CO (t36328)
Hero (t33245)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, CO raises to t1600, Hero raises to t33220, 2 folds, CO calls t31620.

Flop: (t66615) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t66615) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t66615) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t66615

Villain had AQs and had raised in that position twice previously.

I just find myself getting called very often with a hand they raised for value. I also think people are restealing from me and calling them badly as well. Perhaps at $100+ buyins people are steal raising more I don't know...

- J

[/ QUOTE ]

You and CO both played this hand about as bad as possible.