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#111
10-25-2005, 05:14 PM
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Re: veganism
My bottomline line is if a someone (especially a professor) tells you they are vegan they should be competely vegan or else they should be able to be critized for their blaring hyprocrisy.
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#112
10-25-2005, 05:15 PM
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Re: veganism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Problems yes, but not deficits in teh way I was saying. [/ QUOTE ] I completely disagree with this. [/ QUOTE ] My meaning was that a balanced diet almost invariably needs to include some meat. [/ QUOTE ] It certainly makes things a heck of a lot easier, to say the least. But it's not needed. However, I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't just as rare for a vegetarian to eat right as for someone who isn't one. Lots of vegetarians will have very unbalanced meals.
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#113
10-25-2005, 05:16 PM
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Re: veganism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I am pretty sure you create a diet that would give your body enough protein that you wouldn't have to eat meat. [/ QUOTE ] It's not just the protein that you get from meat. [/ QUOTE ] So their are nutrients in meat that can only be found in meat that are essiental to a healthy diet? Like what?
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#114
10-25-2005, 05:18 PM
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Re: veganism
[ QUOTE ]
My bottomline line is if a someone (especially a professor) tells you they are vegan they should be competely vegan or else they should be able to be critized for their blaring hyprocrisy. [/ QUOTE ] Professor or anyone. But especially professor. If I were only partly vegan or mostly vegan, I wouldn't feel like I had any integrity if I tried to represent that I was something else. I'm probably, oh, 90% or more vegetarian, often 100% for very long periods of time. But I would never call myself a vegetarian. You either are, or you aren't. I eat meat sometimes, so I'm not. Period.
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#115
10-25-2005, 05:18 PM
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Re: veganism
[ QUOTE ]
If someone claims to be a vegan and they are a truely vegan then I would have no problem. All I am saying is I don't think you can be half vegan you either are vegan or you are not. [/ QUOTE ] I haven't read every post in this thread, so I appologize in advance if I'm misinterpreting you here. I have three comments that mostly fit in here: 1) Most people I know take vegan to refer to diet only (dictionary.com agrees: "A vegetarian who eats plant products only, especially one who uses no products derived from animals, as fur or leather."). 2) I agree with you that most people are inconsistent. That's why the question of *why* the person is vegan is important. I know at least one person who is vegan for environmental reasons. He takes a number of reasonable steps to minimize his environmental impact, but he's not about to be a zero-impact mountain hermit. So, he's fine with things if there are some inconsistencies .. overall, he thinks he's choices have a positive impact. 3) Speaking of consistency, the fact that so many meat-eaters are totally grossed-out by the idea of actually hunting and killing an animal has always seemed a little off to me. That sort of reaction to killing animals would make me vegetarian. Luckily for me, I'm not so easily grossed out.
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#116
10-25-2005, 05:21 PM
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Re: veganism
Did you read the OP? I have no idea why you suddenly decided this "an argument whose purpose is winning." The OP asked for arguments against veganism, and you did not give one. Like I said, if the OP wanted to have a personal argument about integrity, there are probably much better things he could use. I don't know why you decided the thread should be about something else.
The second part of my post is fine, I'm sorry you didn't understand it. Refer to my earlier post in the thread if you have trouble. Simply put: if you're arguing about ideals, it's stupid to bring up actions. It's a trick that people use in popularity contests and elections. You don't win an argument that way.
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#117
10-25-2005, 05:23 PM
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Re: veganism
im not gonna read 100 and something posts, but I think your best bet is to argue that we have no moral responsibility towards animals. Eating them is beneficial to you in terms of nutrition and highly enjoyable. I don't think I could argue this to well, but I read some Nietchze in the summer, and he seemed to do a good job at this. Maybe start there.
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#118
10-25-2005, 05:27 PM
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Re: veganism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If someone claims to be a vegan and they are a truely vegan then I would have no problem. All I am saying is I don't think you can be half vegan you either are vegan or you are not. [/ QUOTE ] I haven't read every post in this thread, so I appologize in advance if I'm misinterpreting you here. I have three comments that mostly fit in here: 1) Most people I know take vegan to refer to diet only (dictionary.com Disagrees : "A vegetarian who eats plant products only, especially one who uses no products derived from animals , as fur or leather .").[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] FYP first time I used that Edit: I can't get rid of the extra quote box
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#120
10-25-2005, 05:29 PM
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Re: veganism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I am pretty sure you create a diet that would give your body enough protein that you wouldn't have to eat meat. [/ QUOTE ] It's not just the protein that you get from meat. [/ QUOTE ] So their are nutrients in meat that can only be found in meat that are essiental to a healthy diet? Like what? [/ QUOTE ] OK. I'm not saying that it's impossible to get everything you need without meat, especially with supplements. But typically it's difficult to get enough of B12, calcium, iron, riboflavin, zinc, folate, and vitamin D (although enough sunlight will take care of that). Also, if you're anti-salt, iodine can be a problem. Plus all of those wonderful fatty acids that researchers are finding are pretty important to good cardiovascular and neurological health. You can get plenty of all these by eating meat and dairy. Also it's kind of a damned if you do/don't situation but the high bulk of a vegan diet can cause it's own set of problems.
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