trapping w KK

[Dawdy]

For me, I only trap in multi way play or post flop.
Trapping with KK's is asking for trouble which the flop shows. I would say UTG has an Ace and I would say a 5 too.. UTG puts u on an Ace too due to the call. He doesnt want u drawing to a better full for free... not at this stage in the torney, he expects a call if u have trip Aces with a picture kicker. If youd had KK or QQ's you would have reraised all in preflop would be his thinking.. mine also!
You have to fold to that flop. Even 1 Ace on the flop is a fold. This is why playing KK for all your chips preflop is the best play, you are sure to see all 5 cards. If he folds preflop so be it, you made 1k which is better than going broke.
In a cash game trapping with KK's is a profitable play not when your down to 60 in a MTT.

Dawdy

[KUjayhawk08]

Trapping with KK in a multiway pot? Now this is generally a bad idea. If there's a raise and a call in front, it's time to raise with the big pairs. First, there's already a decent amount of money in the pot. Secondly, you are giving people behind you the odds to call with all sorts of hands, not to mention allowing the person who flatcalled the initial raise a free flop.

It is highly unlikely that UTG has A5. AJ and up or possibly 55 would be the hands I'd put UTG on. It is also unlikely that UTG puts you on an ace (after all he does have 3 of them). I still agree with a flatcall preflop with KK. Dawdy... your logic about seeing all the cards with KK applies MUCH more to a hand like AK. With AK it's an obvious push preflop for that very reason.

[SossMan]

With the stack sizes, I like a min raise preflop, too. Flat calling isn't horrible, so long as you are flat calling with a sufficient range of hands on the button to make it not look suspicious.

sossman

[sdplayerb]

you like a min reraise?
that actually gives him odds to flop his set, while also giving away you have a strong hand.
personally i would consider this about the worst play.

[HoldingFolding]

Did this guy consistently raise close to 4BB? If he and the table had been raising 500 or 600 and he bets out 750, I'd be very suspicious that he had a weaker hand (Ax), I like the idea of the 1500 reraise, but with aces on the flop and an insta-all-in I'd fold.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
With the stack sizes, I like a min raise preflop, too.


[/ QUOTE ]

so you want a literal min reraise pre-flop? as in he makes it 750, i make it 1300? i always viewed that as a fishy play - i'm surprised you're recommending it.

whenever i see a min 3-bet preflop, my first reaction is "AA/KK?" i would think that i'd be masking my hand much better with a flat call.

[ QUOTE ]
Flat calling isn't horrible, so long as you are flat calling with a sufficient range of hands on the button to make it not look suspicious.


[/ QUOTE ]

i had not flat called a raise all tournament (maybe a mid PP early on or something). to tell the truth, i probably would not have flat called with anything but AA/KK. but is that really a problem? he doesn't know that i'm not doing something dumb and calling with 87s or something. it's not like we'd been sitting there playing a cash game for 5 hours.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
so you want a literal min reraise pre-flop? as in he makes it 750, i make it 1300? i always viewed that as a fishy play - i'm surprised you're recommending it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because it's generally a fishy play doesn't make it ALWAYS a fishy play, especially if the play is being interpreted by a weakish player who is not afraid of you.

The mini-raise ensures you of getting at least SOME more money into the pot, PLUS it goes further toward your not having to face BOTH blinds post-flop. With your stack size, I still like the min-raise.

Obviously, your goal is to double up. But short of that, you need to do what you can to ensure making MORE than you would if you just smooth called and somehow didn't get another nickel into the pot.

If, for instance, he is raising a pocket pair 99-QQ, he might even reraise you preflop here, which is the best case scenario.

If he holds any of these hands and the board comes with big cards, you might not get another bet out of him.

[KUjayhawk08]

Yeah the guy will probably call the min raise preflop, but he's definitely checking the flop to you. If it's a favorable flop, you bet and he folds simple as that. Or he flops his set and busts you. By flatcalling with KK, the EP raiser is almost certainly going to bet out at any flop, giving you a better opportunity to double up than min-raising preflop.

[sos]

i seriously doubt he has an ace here. with AA no way. he would check. and i would check a set here too. Try and get you to bluff so i can eat some of your chips. i call with my KK.

If he does have an ace then he is playing tough and I will make a note on him for next time.

I like the trap. Sometimes it pays off, other times it doesn't. If you reraise he may fold but by calling you can induce a bluff somewhere along the line.

Oh and if he checks the flop I would probably check to induce a bluff or to get away cheap. You are still alive afterall.

I one A flopped I would probably fold to his all in bet.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah the guy will probably call the min raise preflop, but he's definitely checking the flop to you. If it's a favorable flop, you bet and he folds simple as that. Or he flops his set and busts you. By flatcalling with KK, the EP raiser is almost certainly going to bet out at any flop, giving you a better opportunity to double up than min-raising preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's true that most players will make a standard continuation bet on the flop.

But those same players will smell something fishy from a smooth call, too.

The more I think about this, the more player-dependent it becomes.

Also, one could also make this play with the intention of checking the flop and raising the turn no matter what, as most players will bet at you on the turn in this situation.

There is the obvious problem of letting him get to the turn before making him decide if he wants to commit fully, but there you have it.

I just like mixing it up a lot.