Check, Bet, or Raise with Trips (Paired Doorcard) on 4th

Mac · #1 12-19-2002, 07:51 PM

In a structured betting game, with split K's on third, you raise and get 3 callers. Your K is an overcard to the board. 4th street - you make trips, everyone's staring at your board (KK). Now I'm always tempted to get cute with this hand, maybe just put in one bet. My question is, if you do anything but raise, are you screaming to your opponents that you've just made trips? Do you just bet the maximum and hope your opponents have a hand worth calling? I just hate that feeling when you bet the maximum and see them all drop to your board. Does anyone play this hand differently?

- MAC

Ginogino · #2 12-19-2002, 08:30 PM

Mac:
I'm a relative novice to 7-stud (other than in a homegame), and I welcome the thoughts of more experienced players. That said, it seems to me that if you play a paired doorcard differently when you do have trips (different from the way you play it when you were on a flush draw or when you hit two pair) then you are asking your opponents to note and act on that difference.

Gino

Ray Zee · #3 12-20-2002, 01:31 AM

asmall open pair you can vary you rplay as you would normally check it sometimes. but with a big one you always bet it as you want everyone to go out when you have nothing else, so you play it just like that.
if you are against some fools who will now chase if they make two small pair or aces then maybe give a free or cheap card. but too often they will pick up a big draw and later you may regret it.

Andy B · #4 12-20-2002, 01:44 AM

If you raise on third street and then check after pairing your door card, a red flag should go up for any opponent who is not in a coma. A small bet should look highly suspicious. I almost always bet the full amount when I pair my door card (unless I plan to check and fold). Since I bet full price when I have shaky holdings, I might as well bet full price when I have a real hand as well. If I'm against an opponent who I think is likely to get sucked in by a small bet, I'll make it. The unfortunate fact of the matter is that you're probably not going to get paid off by decent opponents. Happily, there is an abundant supply of clueless opponents where I play. Too bad we can't ever get a stud game higher than $6/12 going.

Jim Mogal · #5 12-22-2002, 11:32 AM

As usual RayZ is spot on....you can't go wrong following his advice [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

CJC · #6 12-22-2002, 11:36 PM

Hello,

My question is, if you do anything but raise, are you screaming to your opponents that you've just made trips?

NOT betting anything but the max is screaming to your opponents that you've made trips!!

CJ

AlanBostick · #7 12-23-2002, 02:17 PM

NOT betting anything but the max is screaming to your opponents that you've made trips!!

YOUR PAIRED DOORCARD is screaming to your opponents that you've made two pair or trips. The trick is to get them to pay you off when the screams represent the truth. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

One hopes that you're raising enough with hands like (JQ)K
or (Ah 8h) Kh that (1) your opponents can't be sure you have two pair or trips when you do, and (2) they fear that you do when you don't.

You just won a small pot. Take the money; toke the dealer; and ante up for the next hand.

Lin Sherman · #8 12-23-2002, 10:27 PM

It really depends on how good your opponents are and whether you have been mixing up your game all along. Pot odds also matter.

Against the overwhelming majority of low-limit players, you might as well make the double bet. Very few of them are going to call or fold based on the size of the bet; if they are willing to call the single bet, they will usually call the double bet also. LL players rarely pay attention to pot size or odds; they are thinking about whether or not they can beat you, and if they think they can, they will usually hang around.

Another point about low-limit players is that even when they know you have trips, they will often call incorrectly anyway. I've seen this tendency in games as high as 20-40. Many players just don't know the odds against them when they take on probable trips. Bad stud players are eternal optimists.

Against better players, deception is essential, but it has to be part of total package. If you always raise on 3rd with split kings, but not when you have a small pair or 3-flush behind your king, then trickery when you make an open pair is pointless. You have to sometimes just call on 3rd with split kings, sometimes raise with the weaker hands.

Finally there's the matter of pot odds. If the pot is on the large size, a single bet may give an opponent with a strong draw correct odds to call. You want opponents to call when they are NOT getting the right odds. So if the pot is already sizeable, then you should make the double bet regarldess of any other factors, even if this will win the pot outright.

Lin