raising preflop with 87s (been reading Izmet Fekali's website)

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]

Please note a hand like 78s is NOT in an implied odds situation against limpers preflop. Suited connectors win more than their fair share and can therefore, raise for immediate profit. The implied odds with these hands are a bonus when they hit a draw on the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

So I was reading Izmet Fekali's website and in the implied odds article I came across the above quote and wanted to get a little more detail on this situation.

When and where do u guys raise 87s preflop?

[Ianco15]

Maybe I would many limpers to me in LP or in the blinds. Maybe. I don't know the correct answer tho.

[Niediam]

When I think everybody will fold. No other times.

[bigredlemon]

78s vs. any two broadway vs. any two broadway vs. any pair vs. random hand

Probably a reasonable representation of a loose table.



1,963,341,743 games 16.641 secs 117,982,197 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 16.7922 % [ 00.16 00.00 ] { 8c7c }
Hand 2: 20.2924 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { AA-TT, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 27.8280 % [ 00.27 00.00 ] { AA-TT, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 4: 19.7252 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { AA-22 }
Hand 5: 15.3621 % [ 00.14 00.01 ] { random }


Would you raise with those odds?

[bigredlemon]

with an extra random hand

2,915,286 games 46.562 secs 62,610 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 17.3802 % [ 00.17 00.01 ] { 8c7c }
Hand 2: 19.4560 % [ 00.19 00.01 ] { AA-TT, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 19.4045 % [ 00.19 00.01 ] { AA-TT, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 4: 20.9975 % [ 00.21 00.00 ] { AA-22 }
Hand 5: 11.3663 % [ 00.11 00.01 ] { random }
Hand 6: 11.3955 % [ 00.11 00.01 ] { random }

[KneeCo]

Still a newbie, but I only raise this hand when folded to in late position if I think I can grab the blinds.

[memphis57]

[ QUOTE ]
78s vs. any two broadway vs. any two broadway vs. any pair vs. random hand

Probably a reasonable representation of a loose table.



1,963,341,743 games 16.641 secs 117,982,197 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 16.7922 % [ 00.16 00.00 ] { 8c7c }
Hand 2: 20.2924 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { AA-TT, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 27.8280 % [ 00.27 00.00 ] { AA-TT, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 4: 19.7252 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { AA-22 }
Hand 5: 15.3621 % [ 00.14 00.01 ] { random }


[/ QUOTE ]


Something looks wierd in these odds - how come the 2 identical broadway hands have such different win rates, 27.8 vs 20.3? And the random hand here does almost as well as the 87s hand, but in the other example where an extra random is added, the 2 randoms significnatly underperform the 87s.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
78s vs. any two broadway vs. any two broadway vs. any pair vs. random hand

Probably a reasonable representation of a loose table.



1,963,341,743 games 16.641 secs 117,982,197 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 16.7922 % [ 00.16 00.00 ] { 8c7c }
Hand 2: 20.2924 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { AA-TT, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 27.8280 % [ 00.27 00.00 ] { AA-TT, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 4: 19.7252 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { AA-22 }
Hand 5: 15.3621 % [ 00.14 00.01 ] { random }


Would you raise with those odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

take out the big pairs, assume we are playing after a couple limpers that'd raise those.

[Cumulonimbus]

In Sklansky's HEPFAP, he talks about raising PF with mid suited-connectors. He says if he's in late position with a couple limpers, he's getting good odds to call, so he might as well raise to beef the pot up, along with other obvious benefits that come with raising.

[mosquito]

[ QUOTE ]
In Sklansky's HEPFAP, he talks about raising PF with mid suited-connectors. He says if he's in late position with a couple limpers, he's getting good odds to call, so he might as well raise to beef the pot up, along with other obvious benefits that come with raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

The benifit to raise is that, when you hit the flop, others
are more tied to thier hands. Thus increasing the pot size
when you like the flop, and you can still fold if you miss.
Bigger implied odds on your draw with more people staying
as well.