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#1
08-21-2005, 08:39 AM
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30/60 turn check-raise semibluff
I open in mid position with AhQh. 20/11/2.1 on whom I have no reads 3bets from the button. He hasn't been here long; he is probably going to make reads based on my (almost identical) pt numbers.
Flop Jx9h8x. I check-call. Turn Jh, I check-raise. I handled an earlier check-raise semi-bluff against a 2+2'er in a embarrasingly donkish fashion, but this one seemed to have merit. Thoughts? 2nd 
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#2
08-21-2005, 12:17 PM
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Re: 30/60 turn check-raise semibluff
FWIW i think you're getting called by any pair, the only hand that makes sense here the way you played it is a flopped set, i'd probably call down with anything resembling a hand here...
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#3
08-21-2005, 12:23 PM
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Re: 30/60 turn check-raise semibluff
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW i think you're getting called by any pair, the only hand that makes sense here the way you played it is a flopped set, i'd probably call down with anything resembling a hand here... [/ QUOTE ] Doubt a better hand is folding on this drawish board. I would rather call down unimproved than c/r here. I would try to take charge on the flop or just draw to my hand. Usually the former.
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#4
08-21-2005, 01:18 PM
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Re: 30/60 turn check-raise semibluff
[ QUOTE ]
I would rather call down unimproved than c/r here. [/ QUOTE ] And hope to be shown what at showdown? At least this way he has a shot at folding and low pair and AK for the same 2BB's. Plus he has 300,000 outs.
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#5
08-21-2005, 01:29 PM
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Re: 30/60 turn check-raise semibluff
I like it. AK is going bye-bye, as well as smaller pairs (although he probably doesnt have this). You have a ton of outs, and must be close to even money against KK.
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#6
08-21-2005, 05:50 PM
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Re: 30/60 turn check-raise semibluff
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] FWIW i think you're getting called by any pair, the only hand that makes sense here the way you played it is a flopped set, i'd probably call down with anything resembling a hand here... [/ QUOTE ] Doubt a better hand is folding on this drawish board. I would rather call down unimproved than c/r here. I would try to take charge on the flop or just draw to my hand. Usually the former. [/ QUOTE ] I can understand the arguments for not checkraising.. but calling down? Without misclicks involved, I can barely even imagine a scenario where I check-call the river unimproved and turn over the best hand. 2nd
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#7
08-21-2005, 06:00 PM
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Re: 30/60 turn check-raise semibluff
[ QUOTE ]
I like it. AK is going bye-bye, as well as smaller pairs (although he probably doesnt have this). You have a ton of outs, and must be close to even money against KK. [/ QUOTE ] No way a good player folds AK here. This check raise can only be a semi bluff, what real hand check calls this flop? IMO the only value he has created is he can get a river fold if a 7 hits. Otherwise he SHOULD be called down by every hand that is ahead.
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#8
08-21-2005, 06:17 PM
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Re: 30/60 turn check-raise semibluff
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I like it. AK is going bye-bye, as well as smaller pairs (although he probably doesnt have this). You have a ton of outs, and must be close to even money against KK. [/ QUOTE ] No way a good player folds AK here. This check raise can only be a semi bluff, what real hand check calls this flop? IMO the only value he has created is he can get a river fold if a 7 hits. Otherwise he SHOULD be called down by every hand that is ahead. [/ QUOTE ] Really? You don't think a TAG will understand that Hero's range could be broad (he was in MP after all), and might be 3 betting a little light. there are also a lot hands in Hero's range that could very well contain a Jack (couldn't you make a case for playing AJ this way?) JTs might also play the hand this way. So might KK or AA, maybe even TT. Some of these hands might go nuts on the flop, but they might not. I think you're grossly underestimating the chanced that a better hand folds, especially AK. If the villian is tight enough to fold a medium Pocket pair, this play only gains value. lf
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#9
08-21-2005, 07:21 PM
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Re: 30/60 turn check-raise semibluff
[ QUOTE ]
Really? You don't think a TAG will understand that Hero's range could be broad (he was in MP after all), and might be 3 betting a little light. there are also a lot hands in Hero's range that could very well contain a Jack (couldn't you make a case for playing AJ this way?) JTs might also play the hand this way. So might KK or AA, maybe even TT. Some of these hands might go nuts on the flop, but they might not. I think you're grossly underestimating the chanced that a better hand folds, especially AK. If the villian is tight enough to fold a medium Pocket pair, this play only gains value. lf [/ QUOTE ] For sure. I would give zero weight to AJ, JTs, AA, KK and TT. If hero check called any of those hands on this flop I think it would be absolutely horrendus (and I believe I have never seen such a hand played that way). While the villian very well may recognize hero may have only a slightly above avergae hand preflop, he certrainly is not going ot fold on that possibility. This check raise is such an obvious play. With AK here I am thinking I am good most of the time (in villians shoes). With AK, I think villian should be considering 3 betting there - although I will admit I am not good enough to trust a read enough to make that play. IMO, the only thing the check raise gets you is some small fold equity on the river depending on the card.
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