Controversy over symbols and racism .

[imported_The Vibesman]

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Me neither. Mostly I just observe rednecks who dislike black people.

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Funny, up here in Massachusetts we don't have many confederate flags, but rednecks who don't like black people are in abundance. Wonder how that happened?

Oh, yeah, hicks are ignorant and scared of anything different. No matter where they're from.

[thatpfunk]

Yes it does. The soliders contributed to the country we have today. They fought for what they thought was best for America (thats the concession I'm making from this thread) so they should be proud to be honored by the flag of our current country.

[wacki]

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Yes it does. The soliders contributed to the country we have today. They fought for what they thought was best for America (thats the concession I'm making from this thread) so they should be proud to be honored by the flag of our current country.

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Who says they aren't? Most of the people who fought in the civil war were proud of the United states, however their number 1 loyalty was to their local region. Are you, a liberal, saying they should be allowed to think like that?

[RedBean]

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I lived in Mississippi for a year and never saw a black person displaying the flag. This outrageous statement seriously discredits your earlier arguments

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So just because you haven't personally seen a black person display the flag, then you think it is empirical evidence that it never happens?

Many blacks are proud of the *true* heritage of that flag, despite what you may think. Granted, it is a shame that racist hate groups later adopted it's use...along with the American flag, mind you, and somehow succeeded in changing it's meaning in the minds of those who are too weak to filter through the racist hate propoganda.

As a proud black man who doesn't let racist hate groups change my view of history or symbols, I refuse to give in to that viewpoint, and I display that flag proudly to honor both my ancestors and those in this state that fought and died under it for something they believed in.

So if it just takes you seeing one black person displaying the flag to open your eyes, come take a stroll back down south, we can sit under the navy jack and you can nibble on my sweet dark chocolate as I explain to you just how un-outrageous my statement really is.

[wacki]

Ugh.... to lazy to pick apart the stuff piece by piece.

Thatpfunk, my attack on what you hate about the south was simply because I didn't think it had any place in this thread. There was no reason britney spears is relevant to the Navy Jack's nonracial uses. You going off on that far off tangent implies that your reasoning is tainted by emotions. If it is or not, I don't care anymore.

That is all.

[thatpfunk]

What are you asking me Wacki? I'm saying the American flag (rather than the confederate flag) is a perfectly suitable way to honor these fallen soldier. What does this have to do with my political leanings?

[RunDownHouse]

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So I ask the southern sympathizers what "rights" were the south fighting for.

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I'm sure the JuCo you attend has a class or two on it. Alternatively, I'm sure your local library has a book or three on it. Alternatively, I'm sure the internet has a few pages on it.

Seriously, if you aren't educated about and familiar with the issues being discussed, don't enter the discussion. Let the big people talk. Its pretty simple.

[RedBean]

For those who are ill-informed and think the Union were the white hat saviors of the black man and fighting a good vs evil battle over slavery....

Taken from http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html:

"President Lincoln insisted that the war was not about slavery or black rights; it was a war to preserve the Union. His words were not simply aimed at the loyal southern states, however -- most white northerners were not interested in fighting to free slaves or in giving rights to black people. For this reason, the government turned away African American voluteers who rushed to enlist. Lincoln upheld the laws barring blacks from the army, proving to northern whites that their race privilege would not be threatened."

Not until the Emancipation Proclamation TWO YEARS INTO THE WAR did the North make a new, second objective of freeing slaves, and only those in southern states at that, leaving slavery intact in Union states.

[wacki]

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What are you asking me Wacki? I'm saying the American flag (rather than the confederate flag) is a perfectly suitable way to honor these fallen soldier. What does this have to do with my political leanings?

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I agree. But what is wrong with them flying a Navy Jack? My brother is in the armed forces, although I fly an american flag, I fly his unit flag to salute him. Is that wrong?

The liberal comment was supposed to encourage open thinking and tolerance. Something that is very difficult to do in this thread.

[ChipWrecked]

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For those who are ill-informed and think the Union were the white hat saviors of the black man and fighting a good vs evil battle over slavery....

Taken from http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html:

"President Lincoln insisted that the war was not about slavery or black rights; it was a war to preserve the Union. His words were not simply aimed at the loyal southern states, however -- most white northerners were not interested in fighting to free slaves or in giving rights to black people. For this reason, the government turned away African American voluteers who rushed to enlist. Lincoln upheld the laws barring blacks from the army, proving to northern whites that their race privilege would not be threatened."

Not until the Emancipation Proclamation TWO YEARS INTO THE WAR did the North make a new, second objective of freeing slaves, and only those in southern states at that, leaving slavery intact in Union states.

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Don't forget also the New York Draft Riots of 1863. New Yorkers were not interested in "Fighting to free a bunch of ******* so they can come up here and take our jobs."