Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > General Poker Discussion > Beginners Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-13-2005, 03:19 PM
DarrenJG DarrenJG is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 7
Default Anyone care to give general advice to a newbie???

Hello folks,

I am brand new here -- first time on the board. I posted in the Beginner forum, but it looks like more people hang out here. I basically want to get the lowdown on becoming a winning player and get a flavor for the folks on this forum.

I am seeking feedback regarding realistic financial returns and time necessary to reach such levels. Any serious feedback would be greatly appreciated. Maybe down the road I can return the favor. I will certainly try to do so.

I am just starting to make a study of poker. I have been a BJ cardcounter for about 7 years and made pretty good money at it. It was basically a part-time job through my latest stint in school. I have good math ability and I am very, very disciplined. I have never had a problem playing properly under stress and avoiding "tilt". As a result of the cardcounting, I also understand, all too well, the swings inherent in this stuff and the idea of expected value, random walk w/ an upward drift, etc. I am a pretty seasoned veteran regarding some gambling concepts, but brand new to poker. At the casinos the only game I EVER played was BJ. It was a job to me, I was not there to play games or "gamble" for fun.

My real job takes a lot of time now and so my card counting has dropped off. The games around here are getting tougher and my partners have more or less disbanded. I don't have time to build or keep a small team together. I like the idea of poker, especially in light of online play.

So, over the past month, I've bought 10-12 poker books -- pretty much all the standards (I tend to really dive into things). I've found my way to this forum. I've read enough to begin to understand the mathematical side and I like it. I have not played yet outside of a very little with some friends. Being so new I am only willing to put maybe $2,000-3,000 in play. Probably start quite small and build up to that. If I saw progress in my play I would be willing to stake myself $5,000 or a little more.

I would really appreciate ANY realistic feedback about the learning curve in poker -- what a pretty fast learner can expect to attain and in what time frame. I enjoy games and competition, but I would be doing this to make some money also -- not just for kicks. What can I expect? What advice would you give me?

I have decent faith in my ability to do well, if there is a realistic chance of doing well. I heard lots of people on forums and in person say that I couldn't make money counting cards -- but I seemed to disprove them. It sounds like there are lots of experienced players here. What does it take to consistently win? What kind of return can be had? How much must one stake? Should I just stick with blackjack and forget about this?

Thanks very much to anybody who had the patience to read this and respond.
Darren
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-13-2005, 03:59 PM
pryor15 pryor15 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: possum lodge
Posts: 624
Default Re: Anyone care to give general advice to a newbie???

sounds to me like your learning curve would be pretty small, generally speaking. i'd say just jump in at the micro levels to get the hang of it, probably .50/1 and when you come up against situations that perplex you (or whatever) post them here and we'll all act like we know everything (that's what we do well, you see) and try to give you some solid advice. there's no substitute for experience.

good luck to you.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-13-2005, 04:01 PM
CheckFold CheckFold is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 0
Default Re: Anyone care to give general advice to a newbie???

I also started with card counting and can assure you that poker is much more profitable with significantly less risk, especially with the quality of BJ games out there today. Given your background and mindset, you can probably become a reasonable low stakes winner with about 60 hours of practice in live or online games. I'd really suggest playing as much live as you can while starting out. It's just my opinion, but I think you can pick up a better feel for the game that way, and since it is slower, you'll stand to lose less while you identify and correct your mistakes than you would while playing 2 or 3x as many hands per hour online.

It is a very reasonable goal to earn a consistently great return playing poker. Live, you'll probably have to get to around the 10-20 level to make a decent profit, but online, you make a very nice side income multitabling the 2/4 and 3/6 games, especially with the rakeback deals and multiple bonus offers out there. A good winrate will be about 2.5 BB/100 at the low level games, but an expert can get upwards of 4BB/100.

My advice would be play, read, and post as much as you can, sign up on party and skins with as good a rake back deal as you can find, play $.5/1 with the goal of working your way up to 4 tables of $2/4 within a couple months. Get pokertracker, establish that you're beating the $2/4 for 2+BB/100 over at least 20,000 hands, then reevaluate.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-13-2005, 04:27 PM
Stork Stork is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Just a little bit to your left...
Posts: 65
Default Re: Anyone care to give general advice to a newbie???

What books do you have? Theory of Poker and Small Stakes Holdem are the only books you really need right now and are the most important to have. It might not be good that you have 10-12 books because alot of books give shitty advice.

With 2K-3K, you have a roll to play 3-6 or 5-10, but you should probably start small at .5-1 while learning the game before moving up. Typically you should have a 300 big bet bankroll for any limit you play, but you can take shots at a higher limit with less.

If you're good, you can expect to make between 2 and 3 big bets per hundred hands on average, but anything positive isn't bad. Of course, your winrate will drop off as you move up in levels and play against better people.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-13-2005, 05:45 PM
DarrenJG DarrenJG is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 7
Default Re: Anyone care to give general advice to a newbie???

Thanks. I wasn't sure I'd get any responses. I appreciate the supportive words.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-13-2005, 05:50 PM
DarrenJG DarrenJG is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 7
Default Re: Anyone care to give general advice to a newbie???

Sounds like we're coming from similar paths. You're right, the BJ games have gotten tougher to beat, especially in my neck of the woods.

Quick follow-up:

What have you found to be the # of hands that can be played hourly online and how tough is multitabling? How about the range for B&M?

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-13-2005, 06:04 PM
DarrenJG DarrenJG is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 7
Default Re: Anyone care to give general advice to a newbie???

I tried to stick with pretty reputable books.

I have Theory of Poker and Small Stakes Hold'em. i also picked up Supersystem, Harrington's new book, Lee Jones Small Stakes, Helmuth's Play Poker Like the Pros, Caro's Poker Tells, Sklansky's original Hold'em, Killer Poker, which I haven't looked at yet, and some others.

I plan to build a base from Theory and Small Stakes Hold'em to allow me to play small games well. I wanted to have the non-small stakes stuff to give me a sense of how small stakes differs. I guess, down the road, I plan to look into tourney play perhaps and see if I have any ability at that.

Is the 300 BB bankroll the standard benchmark? Have you stuck by this in your personal play? Seems kind of low and pretty reasonable financially. I guess the volatility is significantly less than with cardcounting.

The poker bankroll will be a small fraction of the necessary blackjack roll, which is nice. Less heartburn.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-13-2005, 06:11 PM
mscags mscags is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Between Two Hot Twins
Posts: 713
Default Re: Anyone care to give general advice to a newbie???

Yeah, generally between 200-300 BB is the typical. The closer to 300 the better though. I haven't played BJ that much, but I believe the swings that one takes wont be quite as severe when playing poker. Good luck with your play
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-13-2005, 07:03 PM
Stork Stork is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Just a little bit to your left...
Posts: 65
Default Re: Anyone care to give general advice to a newbie???

I'd stick to reading Theory of Poker and Small Stakes Holdem and these forums and make sure you can tell good advice from bad advice before you venture to read other books that could be bad for you.

300 big bets is the standard benchmark, although how big a roll you need also depends on your winrate and how aggressive the game is. At the mid-high limits, some people perfer having 500 big bets. Personally, I'm still playing low limits and have not been adhering completely to the 300 big bet rule because these games are rediculously easy.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-13-2005, 07:53 PM
Justin A Justin A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: I travel the world and the seven seas
Posts: 494
Default Re: Anyone care to give general advice to a newbie???

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like we're coming from similar paths. You're right, the BJ games have gotten tougher to beat, especially in my neck of the woods.

Quick follow-up:

What have you found to be the # of hands that can be played hourly online and how tough is multitabling? How about the range for B&M?

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Multitabling is easy, but it's very tough if you're still learning the game. Once you get a ton of experience and you can make most of your decisions very quickly and correctly, then you can move to four, six, or more tables. Typical online games play at about 65 hands per hour, so an eight tabler can play 500 hands per hour. I want to stress again that it's best to multitable only after significant experience playing. Playing two tables to start out may be helpful, but I don't really consider that multitabling.

B&M hand rates are about 30-35 hands per hour. However, the players are usually worse and you can make better reads, which decreases variance greatly. Also, I think it's a lot more fun. Because of this most players feel more comfortable playing higher stakes when playing live than they do online.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.