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  #1  
Old 12-25-2005, 08:34 AM
-Skeme- -Skeme- is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: S. Korea ($100 NL)
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Default QJs > Nuts > Action

Villain is decent for $200 NL. I would say he's a thinking player. Not very good, but better than average, most likely a winner in the game.

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed)

UTG ($253.50)
UTG+1 ($206)
Hero ($323.70)
MP2 ($200)
CO ($75)
Button ($191.25)
SB ($165.25)
BB ($200.80)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $2, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($8) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $22</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $16.

Turn: ($52) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $30</font>, Hero ??
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What's the best way to play this? What do you put Villain on? How much do you think he's calling here? There are also many a card that come which may prohibit me from getting his whole stack in as well as scaring me into wanting his whole stack in. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-25-2005, 08:42 AM
Maulik Maulik is offline
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Default Re: QJs > Nuts > Action

I'm raising to $100 or pushing.
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  #3  
Old 12-25-2005, 08:43 AM
Rotating Rabbit Rotating Rabbit is offline
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Default Re: QJs > Nuts > Action

i push and expect to be called by a set in 200nl, maybe even worse hands
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  #4  
Old 12-25-2005, 08:49 AM
-Skeme- -Skeme- is offline
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Location: S. Korea ($100 NL)
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Default Re: QJs > Nuts > Action

Yeah, this hand isn't gonna generate the discussion I thought it would. I figured I'd get his whole stack by pushing. Also had him on a set. He deliberated for like 15-20 seconds and called with 76c.

-----
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed)

UTG ($253.50)
UTG+1 ($206)
Hero ($323.70)
MP2 ($200)
CO ($75)
Button ($191.25)
SB ($165.25)
BB ($200.80)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $2, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($8) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $22</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $16.

Turn: ($52) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $299.7</font>, BB calls $146.80 (All-In).

River: ($528.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $528.50

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has 6c 7c (straight, ten high).
Hero has Qh Jh (straight, queen high).
Outcome: Hero wins $528.50. </font>
-----

Meh.
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  #5  
Old 12-25-2005, 08:55 AM
Ghazban Ghazban is offline
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Location: Boston, MA
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Default Re: QJs > Nuts > Action

I would've just called the turn. Villain's line from a thinking player looks like he's probing to see if you were raising a draw on the flop. If you raise both flop and turn, he can fold a ton of hands confidently knowing you weren't raising the flop to give yourself the option for a free river. Its also worth mentioning that he will almost never be on a straight or flush draw himself with this action and almost always has a made hand of some sort (straight, set, two pair).

If you call the turn, you have anough behind to sell a desperation bluff on the river (so long as the board doesn't pair) which he will have to call with a set or two pair if that card doesn't complete the flush or straight. In light of what he actually had, your line is better but I think call turn-&gt;push river gets more money in against his entire range. Of course, that's dependent on your table image to some degree but as I haven't played with you, I can't comment on that.
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2005, 09:31 AM
partygirluk partygirluk is offline
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Default Re: QJs > Nuts > Action

What do you think of Villain's line here? It seems very hard to get away from 67......
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2005, 09:54 AM
Hattifnatt Hattifnatt is offline
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Default Re: QJs > Nuts > Action

[ QUOTE ]
I would've just called the turn. [...]

[/ QUOTE ]
Isnt there a big problem with calling because so many cards will be actionkillers on the river IYO? + The little possibility that a scare card come and he comes in pushing and Hero get a tough decision?
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  #8  
Old 12-25-2005, 10:10 AM
-Skeme- -Skeme- is offline
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Default Re: QJs > Nuts > Action

[ QUOTE ]
I would've just called the turn. Villain's line from a thinking player looks like he's probing to see if you were raising a draw on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's possible, but he should still have a hand right? If he's probing with a made hand, I want to raise and get his money into the pot before something kills my action. What happens when I call and sell the whole draw thing, but a spade comes? That's not really good for anybody.

Is he has 76, that's great as there is very little chance he'll get away from it. Especially when I play it super fast like I did. Not to mention, if he does have a made hand, my jam can also sell the whole semi-bluff thing, too.

If he has a set, I doubt he's getting away from that either. If he's probing with a draw, good, I still want to raise here, right? I'd rather go with the sure thing though, which is getting my money in now, as opposed to hoping river blanks so I can jam and sell a bluff.. all the while hoping his probing hand is that strong.


[ QUOTE ]
What do you think of Villain's line here? It seems very hard to get away from 67......

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, can't fault him for calling. I can easily have a set there and I'd play it the same way.
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  #9  
Old 12-25-2005, 11:28 AM
Ghazban Ghazban is offline
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Default Re: QJs > Nuts > Action

From villain's perspective, he can get away from a ton of hands when you raise him both on the flop and turn. If you call the turn, you get more money in on the river against many of those hands that either block bet or check/call to snap off a bluff on the end. Whether or not cards kill your action is irrelevant if raising kills your action 100% of the time. Clearly, if villain is strong (as he was in this case or would be if he had a set), the money goes in pretty easily anyway. You can't stack him if he's not that strong no matter what you do but you can get a little more value out of your hand when he doesn't have a monster by calling the turn. The only time you lose is when villain would've played a big pot on the turn (with a set for example) but won't on a scary river.
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  #10  
Old 12-25-2005, 12:58 PM
-Skeme- -Skeme- is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: S. Korea ($100 NL)
Posts: 2,694
Default Re: QJs > Nuts > Action

[ QUOTE ]
You can't stack him if he's not that strong no matter what you do but you can get a little more value out of your hand when he doesn't have a monster by calling the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

How? What are we putting him on that bets flop, turn, and river, that isn't going to be calling my raise?


[ QUOTE ]
The only time you lose is when villain would've played a big pot on the turn (with a set for example) but won't on a scary river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or when I call and a spade hits and he bets again. Or when I call and a spade hits and he checks, thus killing my action. Or when I call and a Jack hits and kills my action.
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