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  #1  
Old 12-24-2005, 04:25 PM
xertic xertic is offline
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Default TT 4-handed

We're fourhanded, at a live tournament (started with 7). I pick up TT in the big blind, with about 320 in chips and blinds of 5/10. A reasonably good, TAG player UTG with about 600 raises 30 preflop. He sees me as a tight, strong player and generally respects my raises, although he has seen me resteal preflop and c/r bluff flops on occasion. It's folded around to me in the BB.

Question 1: What's the play?

I actually reraised, making it 60 more to go. UTG thought for awhile and pushed all in.

Question 2: What's the play?

I actually folded, despite getting almost 2-1 from the pot. Weak/tight, or potentially good laydown?
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2005, 04:47 PM
ravensfan ravensfan is offline
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Default Re: TT 4-handed

Good fold, he's probably 50-50 two over cards or an overpair (if he's good TAG, i can't see 9s pushing in this spot, unless he reads you as really weak or very loose).

WIth the blinds levels as they are, i think you have to fold.

Since he's seen you resteal already, maybe you might've considered flat-calling the original raise, and betting out something like that same $60 if neither AK hit or if one does and a 10 hits. If you bet if he had AK and missed the flop AK, would he fold?

Just hate calling an all in with 10s and stack = 22x BB (now) unless i have a solid read on villian. Isn't it likely that the long delay could've been a reverse tell that he has AA or KK?
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2005, 05:09 PM
xertic xertic is offline
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Default Re: TT 4-handed

Thanks; I'm also wondering about my preflop reraise. It seemed fundamentally sound to me (I get him to fold AJ, KQ, plus all the speficially shorthanded raising hands (QJ, Ax, KJs, etc)). Plus, I'm out of position postflop, and therefore want to end the hand now. But I'm thinking about what Sklansky talks about in TPFAP; is my play with TT best left to hands like 9Ts, where I don't hate being reraised (because I can fold with no regrets?) According to TPFAP, would I rather coldcall and take a flop with my TT?
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  #4  
Old 12-24-2005, 05:27 PM
DarrenX DarrenX is offline
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Default Re: TT 4-handed

I like a call here- if he's tight, he'll get out if he doesn't hit. I like calling and betting out if there are 0 or 1 overcards to your pair. If he's tight like you say, you'll find out on the flop.

If you do decide to raise, I'd raise enough to pot-commit myself.

As it was played, I'd call.
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  #5  
Old 12-24-2005, 05:34 PM
async async is offline
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Default Re: TT 4-handed

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks; I'm also wondering about my preflop reraise. It seemed fundamentally sound to me (I get him to fold AJ, KQ, plus all the speficially shorthanded raising hands (QJ, Ax, KJs, etc)). Plus, I'm out of position postflop, and therefore want to end the hand now. But I'm thinking about what Sklansky talks about in TPFAP; is my play with TT best left to hands like 9Ts, where I don't hate being reraised (because I can fold with no regrets?) According to TPFAP, would I rather coldcall and take a flop with my TT?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the reraise, as it helps define both hands. The fold is a good fold unless the other player is very agressive or you have some reason to think he's way out of line. I think it's also perfectly acceptable to just smooth call there. If you flop a set you extract, otherwise you are playing oop and have to play in a way that defines your hand looking to take it quick or fold.

If you think the other player is tricky or tough, I especially like the reraise pf.
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  #6  
Old 12-24-2005, 06:32 PM
ravensfan ravensfan is offline
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Default Re: TT 4-handed

To be honest, i haven't been able to get my hands on anything by Sklansky, but i agree, you want to kill hands when you're oop especially with 20-30x bb. However, villian is most likely (ie. 75-80%?) being honest, and unlikely making a positional move. But you did mention that you had restole and c/r'ed possible bluffs, so he might be trying to buy the pot with something like Axs, KJ, 67s. etc. Your read will obviously be better though. Problem is, reraising by the same amount you'd lead out if you called will sometimes take pot and sometimes lose your bet. I like playing 10s and Js for set value and overpair qualities, and possibly leading out 1/2 pot if i think he missed. Besides, if he is bluffing and has one of top two/three hands (which he is representing), your implied odds are pretty good by calling when you hit your 10 (you should double up and it costs about 1/10th your stack to give you the chance).

Basically, your reraise either makes him fold, call, or push. Folding is ideal, but since he has you covered by a fair bit (what are other stack sizes and payout structure btw?) and has position i don't know how likely that is. If he calls, it might be tough to put him on a hand, and i don't know if you would really want to lead out a bet on a Q7J or K53 type of flop (and any aces, i'd suggest leaving alone if you have an average stack).

So, to me anyways, calling lets you still risk the same 60 you raised, but under potentially more favorable conditions ie. to rule out AK (which will occur 2/3 of the time), and still allows you to try to hit your set. Besides, if he plays AK as he would AA-QQ, it makes it almost equally likely that he has AK as one of top three pairs (and he might slowplay AA or KK).

Also, knowing that he's gonna push 50% with AK or 50% with overpair, you have to fold the push. But it makes sense to see flop and bet out if no A or K, b/c if he does have As or Ks, you'd still lose it, but if he does have AK, he SHOULD fold.
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2005, 06:35 PM
ravensfan ravensfan is offline
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Default Re: TT 4-handed

It's all relative... but i'm saying i dislike the reraise with these stacks b/c if he is against an overpair, he still gets correct odds to call with any small pp since he should double up vs top 2 pairs. And if AK miss flop, it's a great time to take down pot with what's more likely a top hand... but it'll still cost the same, or even less, on the continuation bet to find out.
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  #8  
Old 12-24-2005, 06:39 PM
valenzuela valenzuela is offline
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Default Re: TT 4-handed

Post the two other stacks and the payout structure, that way you will get more replies, anyway your line is absolutely horrible IMO.
edit: sorry i thought u had min-raised to 60, btw if ure going to fold after thhrowing away 30% of ure stack, push all-in right away.
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