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  #1  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:46 PM
POKhER POKhER is offline
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Default AQ & QQ - Two handed post vs Unknowns

<font color="green">

So i'm normally always like "get reads dammit, Stop multitabling and get reads blah blah" because i hate situations with no reads. So i played some hands and these popped up(i really got to watch the table and get reads before playing now!).

Anyhow, all unknowns as they happend at the start of tables, therefore providing you with reads i gained after would be stupid.

Also contains 3hands, I'm sorry [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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Hand 1,

Converted at PokerGeek
Absolute Limit Hold'em Ring - $1/$2 Stakes (5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero raises, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Big blind calls, UTG calls

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Big blind checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Big blind calls, UTG folds

Turn: (5.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Big blind checks, Hero bets, Big blind calls

River: (7.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Big blind checks, Hero checks

Final Pot: $14.75

<font color="blue"> Anyone checking the turn? Anyone firing on the river? </font>

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Hands 2,

Converted at PokerGeek
Absolute Limit Hold'em Ring - $1/$2 Stakes (4 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Big blind with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO checks, Button calls, Hero checks

Flop: (2.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls

Turn: (2.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets, Button all-in ($3.75), Hero ?

<font color="blue">He's all in for just under 1BB, Looks like it may be a bluff or trips... Anyone calling? 5:1 </font>
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Hand 3,

Converted at PokerGeek
Absolute Limit Hold'em Ring - $1/$2 Stakes (6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO checks, Hero raises, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls, CO calls

Flop: (6.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, CO bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, CO calls

Turn: (6.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, CO bets, Hero...

<font color="blue"> Ditching it? Flush? Ace high 1card flush draw turn pair? Anyone going to SD providing river isn't a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ? Anyone raising to get rid of UTG? </font>
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: AQ & QQ - Two handed post vs Unknowns

Hand 1 I play exactly the same, don't see any problems there. Just take the free card for the straight and check when checked too. There isn't any value in a river bet.

Edit : thought you checked the turn, I dunno how often I bet this. Sometimes I would like to but don't

Hand 2, easy call. People with no money tend to flounder it away often you will see another ace or just complete rubbish.

Hand 3, this is the difficult one. I don't see any point to push UTG out. He isn't folding a better hand and there are no outs that you can clear up. I don't really know what to say about the hand and your position with CO though. My guess is he has an A, but im not sure. As it goes he may have bet flop with nut A draw, and paired onturn. In my opinion a raise serves no purpose and I think both calling and folding have their merits.

True
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:05 PM
jba jba is offline
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Default Re: AQ & QQ - Two handed post vs Unknowns

hand 1 is perfect. you have decent fold equity on the turn and lots o outs to back it up.

hand 2: easiest call ever. short stackers can be doing this with J high.

hand 3: closest of the bunch IMO. I'd call down. I don't think i'd fold non-spade river unless UTG wakes up.. this is a tough hand because it's one of those hands where you're not exactly sure who has the made hand and who has the draw, but you have both so I'm inclined to showdown.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:19 PM
car ramrod car ramrod is offline
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Default Re: AQ & QQ - Two handed post vs Unknowns

hand 1: I like teh turn bet. River check is perfect

hand 2: gotta call, he is low stacked and could have anything

hand 3: close, but I call down with the Q of [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: AQ & QQ - Two handed post vs Unknowns

Hand 1:
pre-flop good. I like the bet on the flop after they all check to you. After they checked again to me on the turn I would have to bet and pray for no one to check-raise me, but even so, that prolly means that someone has a piece of the board, or they are still on their straight draw, even with the jack on the board.

Hand 2:
Hmmm ... The only reason that I say call is for the odds and the fact that you don't have to deal with betting anymore. If I was reraised by a person with a healthy stack who seems TAG, then no ... I fold. However, I'd call in this case, though you're probably beat. I can see you winning at least one out of six of these types to at least break even.

Hand 3:
Call down to see the river. If no spade comes, I'd so want to fold facing a bet, but you'll be getting about 8-9:1 to call, so if that pot gets big enough, close your eyes and call. If a sp [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]ade does come, I'd just bet/call to give me some protection against an A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:24 PM
Vote4Pedro Vote4Pedro is offline
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Default Re: AQ & QQ - Two handed post vs Unknowns

Hand 1: I like a turn bet, check behind UI
Hand 2: I'm never folding in situations like these
Hand 3: Calldown looks good to me
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:41 PM
POKhER POKhER is offline
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Default Re: AQ & QQ - Two handed post vs Unknowns

Three responses so its time to start to discuss hand 3 as this was the toughest decision i faced.

We've three decisions Raise(Ahead so for value/protection), Fold(behind/Drawing dead), Call(drawing)

Raising - Well we assume we're ahead and maybe or maybe not drawing to the winning flush. Raising will charge the other guys drawing to 2pair/Flushes/other hands and make weaker hands fold(protection) its also for value.



Fold - We're behind and not drawing to a winner often.This is based on the assumption that between the two one has an ace and the other a stronger flush.

Call - We're chasing the flushdraw but think we're behind an ace so when the flush hits we must get as much value as possible from it.

However with the call line, we're sometimes walking into a trap(losing to A/K high flush). So we'd most likly have to BET/FOLD. However we're sandwiched so we'll either face a bet which we can either call or raise(most likly go for overcalls due to being unsure if we're ahead). Or face a check which we will have to bet but what do we do if raised? Assuming majority of "unknowns" wont bluff raise we must fold no?

As we're in this tricky situation by calling and hitting our flush it seems we won't make up enough for the times we:

Hit and lose to a higher flush
Miss and lose to an Ace.
Miss and beat weaker pairs.

So IMO its either Fold/Raise. I'm sure i've overlooked some lines/affects of our actions such as killing bluffs etc.

Of course on the call line we maybe ahead... But it just doesn't seem that way.


Edit: it was 3responses at least when i typed this up LOL. P.s. Please critique this.
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:46 PM
jba jba is offline
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Default Re: AQ & QQ - Two handed post vs Unknowns

[ QUOTE ]
As we're in this tricky situation by calling and hitting our flush it seems we won't make up enough for the times we:

Hit and lose to a higher flush
Miss and lose to an Ace.
Miss and beat weaker pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

how can you make this statement without putting villains on ranges? This needs to be quantified. the pot is offering decent odds.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:54 PM
POKhER POKhER is offline
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Default Re: AQ & QQ - Two handed post vs Unknowns

7:1 and potentially facing a slowplayed flush from the guy acting after us.

I just don't feel we'll win enough when we do hit our flush, and we'll often be behind an ace.

Its pretty hard to put unknowns(Litrally unknown, no PT stats nor reads which is strange as i datamine all day long). on a range, but im basing these assumptions on "the majority"(Which i accept is subjective).

I had villan on a flush draw, maybe toppair.

I mean i raised preflop then he donks a monotone flop. I raise him and he doesn't 3bet...

I guess a flush draw may 3bet here, topair probably wouldnt. Then the ace hits and he donks again 3WAY.

Now this seems a pretty strong gesture, maybe 2pair... maybe just spiked an ace after thinking he had lots of FE by donking this flop.

I can't pin him down, its just more "Instinct" that i dont think we'll win spiking a flush. Can honestly say im not biased by the results which i'll reveal after a conclusion(if possible).

What do you put him on to call down?

Fairly hard to put him on a range therefore justify actions based on the % chance of what he may hold which puts up arguement for calling down vs an unknown due to a bluff.

But i think calling down potential 3way pot(Sure HU is different) on this board with that overcard seems -EV longterm.

you disagree?
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:07 PM
therockofgibraltar therockofgibraltar is offline
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Default Re: AQ & QQ - Two handed post vs Unknowns

1.perfect
2.call
3.I would call but this is pretty difficult hand.
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