3 bet too much?

#1 12-19-2005, 02:23 AM

villian is an unknown, im new to the table.
I call from my big more liberally when sitting in a new game, but the main question here is about the turn play. What do you guys think?
Once he reraises i realize i am most likely behind, but i don't know that i can get that without that information.

Ultimate Bet 50/100 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River: (14.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 20.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 8d 4d (flush, king high).
UTG has Qc Qh (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins 20.25 BB.

#2 12-19-2005, 03:06 AM

I like your turn bet, becuz there are still hands the UTG can have that you are ahead of that he may check behind like AdJd, AdTd,JdTd,or JTs in general.

This is part of the reason I dont like going for the checkraise here, since the villain might check behind his draws which is bad, and theres a significant chance you will get 3 bet by a better hand on this board given the villains flop action.

So I like your turn bet, but once the button raises the turn, I think you should just call. You have no read on the villain so lets assume he's somewhat decent. You bet/3 bet the flop and he capped you, and yet you still bet the turn, if the UTG is a decent player he should know that you have a very strong hand, yet the UTG players raises anyways. This is a great sign of strength. Given the UTG's flop cap and turn raise, your hand is just not strong enough to 3 bet in this spot, you should just call IMO.

Other comments: I like your flop play and your river play, and preflop I think you should fold.

poker1O1 · #3 12-19-2005, 03:07 AM

yea, i think after the flop cap and not slowing on the turn, i would just call this turn raise and c/r the river?

#4 12-19-2005, 03:12 AM

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yea, i think after the flop cap and not slowing on the turn, i would just call this turn raise and c/r the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
I like the hero's river line of bet/3bet better than going for the checkraise becuz there is no way the UTG is going to put the hero on a flush after all that action on the flop and turn.

poker1O1 · #5 12-19-2005, 03:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yea, i think after the flop cap and not slowing on the turn, i would just call this turn raise and c/r the river?

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I like the hero's river line of bet/3bet better than going for the checkraise becuz there is no way the UTG is going to put the hero on a flush after all that action on the flop and turn.

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ok, agreed, at first I thought it'd seem too obvious but given the turn action I would agree.

#6 12-19-2005, 03:23 AM

I think you guys are right here. I know i lean towards the LAG when it goes short, even moreso than is profitable at times.

flawless_victory · #7 12-19-2005, 03:29 AM

all of it looks fine to me...
curious as to whether you are calling a river bet if it blanks off?

#8 12-19-2005, 03:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
all of it looks fine to me...
curious as to whether you are calling a river bet if it blanks off?

[/ QUOTE ]
Getting 15.25-1 I would call the river bet hoping the villain overplayed AK or AA. My read would be that there is no logical way the hero's hand is good, but since no read is 100% accurate, especially against an unknown, and the hero only needs to be good here 6.2% of the time to make calling profitable, I would call.

DeeJ · #9 12-19-2005, 07:08 AM

I like it all apart from the preflop call, which you excuse... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] even 6 handed 84 suited is a lousy hand heads up. I would probably call if there were 2 others in, though.

OnkelHotte · #10 12-19-2005, 09:04 AM

my lector told me that 84s is not worth defending your blind vs MP2 open raise.