30/60 Stud hi hand

[CarlosChadha]

Any thoughts? All players are good semi-loose, tricky and very agressive. No one knows the 5 seat well (he is the weakest), but the other 3 of us have played thousands of hands together.

7 Card Stud High ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (converter)

Seat 1: $2,329
Seat 3: $725
Seat 5: $292
Seat 6: $806.50
Hero: $4,913
Seat 8: $587

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls

4th Street - (5.00 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls

5th Street - (8.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (12.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

River - (15.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___bets___raises___calls
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___folds

Total pot: (23.50 BB)

[BTirish]

Heh, how tricky/aggressive is Seat 3? I think he's saying pretty clearly "I've got aces" on 4th. I think this is a fold on 4th (or 5th, if you must peel one on 4th) unless you know he's likely to have air. You're the one who has played thousands of hands with him, and I don't play this high.

He bets right into your paired door on 6th, and he 3-bets on the river. If nothing else, I'd refrain from capping the river, but this is close since he can't 5-bet.

[Andy B]

I think a reasonable case can be made for folding on third. I would probably only call on fourth and hope to either hit hard on fifth or get out cheap. I definitely only call the three-bet on the river unless this guy is really a loose cannon.

I see the game is full as I write this. Don't think I've ever seen that before. How often does it go?

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]

I see the game is full as I write this. Don't think I've ever seen that before. How often does it go?

[/ QUOTE ]

The game goes 2 to 4 handed about 12-16 hours a day and gets more than 4 people for maybe an hour a day.

[mscags]

This is an easy fold on third right? I don't see why you called unless you had a good read he was raising light.

[frappeboy]

Carlos,

I think if you play this hand you should re-raise on 3rd street. I hate to cold call 3rd street with what could be a lower pair because you are making a mistake one way or the other. If he actually has aces its a mistake to call and if he doesn't have aces its a mistake not to re-raise to get it heads up. So atleast by re-raising you have a chance that you are making the right play. Barry Greenstein talks about this concept in his book "Ace on the river"

The raise on 4th street looks OK to knock out seat 8. But like I said before I think if you're willing to raise on 4th street to knock out players you might as well do it on 3rd.

I would just call on 5th street like you did. Normally I'd like to raise here with such a big pot but I really don't think you're gonna make anyone fold after 4th street.

I might raise on 6th street. First off I think there is a good chance you have the best hand here since you have the ace. Seat 3 could have pocket kings or queens here. The two benefits of the raise here is that seat 8 is definitely on a draw and if you indeed do have the best hand you want to get him out of there. Secondly, you gain more information from seat 3. Even if hes really tricky, I think if he 3 bets on 6th street you can be fairly sure he has trip aces and can fold on the river, although it would be a tough fold.

I like the original raise on the river but I would just call when he re-raises.

[CarlosChadha]

One quick note about both frappe's and sara's anaylses. You both mentioned that if I played the hand, I should have reraised on third to get heads up. I would definitely have done this if there hadn't been a caller in between us, and given that there was only the bring in left to act behind me, raising would not have helped much to reduce the number of players in the pot. Were you guys thinking that maybe the original raiser would 3 bet and knock out the guy in the middle, that reraising would be worth it to ensure that the bring in would not enter, or did you just not notice that there was a 3rd player already in?

-Carlos

[jon_1van]

Questions :

-If you don't raise 4th (I'm assuming to fold some people), what do you do on 5th when the pot is so much smaller?

-What do you put seat 8 on? (My read in white) <font color="white"> Seat 8 looks like a low 3 flush. Sticking around for the double bet on 4th looks alot like 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or something similar (maybe a rolled hand) </font> end read

Given what I think of 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] guy, 5th seems like its getting a bit scary. The reason here is that I can't see what that guy can call with that doesn't utterly destory your pot equity. And I think I may have folded there. But if the Ace is very aggressive (and will play this way with something like 66A) and the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] guy is a bit "sticky" then I'd play on now that at least I have ugly straight outs, and my Tens are still live.

[lstream]

When he three bets you on the river, he sure seems to announce that he is full - i.e. he is not afraid that you hit a straight or flush draw, which MIGHT be his read based upon your play. Given your description of him, he could easily have started with 88A. (more fuel for the third street raise opinions) If that turns out to be true, then nice cap, but that appears to be about the only plausible way you win the hand, unless of course he had a temporary lapse in judgement.

[BTirish]

lstream: good point about 8-8-A being a possibility. I wouldn't be surprised if that were what was shown down. However, if that's the read that makes capping the river appropriate, then it is definitely what also makes folding 4th or 5th UI appropriate.