AQs

[M2d]

folded to a decent player in the cutoff. he raises. Button mucks. I have AQs in the SB. I call. BB calls behind.

Now a word from our sponsor.
PFR is a decent enough player, but prone to tilt and who can get over aggressive. he's taken some tough beats and missed a few draws in the previous few rounds (read: I think he's tilting a bit). BB will play virtually anything for a single raise in the bb (he previously showed down 8-2o for a pfr).
I call because:
1) I want BB in the hand
2) I'm pretty sure pfr's tilting and he'll pour chips at me if I flop a better hand than him
3) I want to keep the pot relatively small to set up a check-raise bluff steal if I don't hit and I don't think pfr hit (I'm virtually sure that he'll bet the whole way if checked to, but the tilting-decent-player's mindset is often kind of gunshy, and I think I can get him to release his hand if I pressure him on the turn).

Now, on to the hand

flop comes A high, two toned with two rags.
I check and call. I wanted to see what the BB would do here. he called.

turn was a rag. i check called and BB called behind.

should I have checkraised the turn? I was 95% sure that pfr was betting here, so I don't think betting out gains me anything. I think I'm raised if beat, but, more importantly, lose him if I'm ahead. same reasoning for the smooth call of the bet. I don't want to check-raise and lose both opponents.

river is a blank, and I check.

[Nightwish]

I would still 3-bet preflop. I understand your point about keeping the pot small, but you quite likely have the best hand here. You need to get the others to put the money in while they are behind. Oh, and how do you know BB won't call 2 bets?

I like the way you played after that except for the river, where I would bet.

[Philuva]

[ QUOTE ]
2) I'm pretty sure pfr's tilting and he'll pour chips at me if I flop a better hand than him

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'm raised if beat, but, more importantly, lose him if I'm ahead. same reasoning for the smooth call of the bet. I don't want to check-raise and lose both opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

These two statements contradict each other. I thought the reason you smooth called pre-flop was to get the PFR to spew chips around. You can't really get him to do that by check calling. If you are going to just call pre-flop you need to put in a CR on the turn, or bet the turn out and hope the PFR raises you and you can 3-bet him with the BB in-between.

Otherwise, make it 3 bets pre-flop.

[JimmyV]

I think I'd bet the turn to charge BB for his two-pair rag outs and invite PFR to raise tiltily with a worse kicker.

I like your preflop plan! but when you have the goods you need to be putting money in the pot. Otherwise the pots you win with real hands are just as small as the ones that can be won with bluff turn-checkraises. Also, otherwise people will assume when you call that you're playing possum, and check behind when you want them betting and call down when you bluff.

Good thinking preflop though.

JimmyV

[M2d]

[ QUOTE ]
These two statements contradict each other. I thought the reason you smooth called pre-flop was to get the PFR to spew chips around. You can't really get him to do that by check calling. If you are going to just call pre-flop you need to put in a CR on the turn, or bet the turn out and hope the PFR raises you and you can 3-bet him with the BB in-between.

[/ QUOTE ]

by "pour chips at me", I mean put in more than warranted. I think he'll go hide, tail between his legs if I show aggression at all (he's good enough to circumvent tilt when faced with unexpected danger, but tilty enough to fire when faced with little resistance).

BB presented a little fly in the ointment. I didn't expect him to be around, but, since he was, I was pretty sure he was on a rag ace. We'd been chumming it up for a little while now, and he showed me a bunch of turn laydowns that he made with second or third pair as well as flop laydowns that only hit air. By his still being there, I was pretty sure he was on a bad ace, and by his having a bad ace, I was pretty sure pfr was on a small (-er than aces) pair or drawing dead.
I probably should have check-raised, and I usually do (which is why I chose to post this hand-no sense posting about the norm), but smooth calling all the way seemed right.

fwiw, I was going to check-raise the river, but whiffed there when it was checked around.

[onegymrat]

Hi M2d,

I like your reasons #1 and #2 very much. I would occasionally let BB in if I am sure he is more of an asset than a detriment, but most of the time, I would 3-bet a loose raiser (steal-raise possibility) and let BB decide his own demise. This is especially true when you are out of position like this one. I don't think reason #3 is too relevant. You only have one opponent, and he either flops a monster or he doesn't.

Since you didn't raise out BB, I would check-raise the flop. You have BB's money, now he needs to let himself out. Lead on the turn afterwards. Assuming he has an ace, he either has you with a king kicker, or he's way behind. You need to make the most out of your hand and not give them a chance to check behind.

[Kaz The Original]

I don't like check raising the river with 1 pair. It was checking with the intention of betting right? Or was this some TA-esquapade?

[mike l.]

"I was pretty sure pfr was on a small (-er than aces) pair"

so was i, which is why your river check made no sense whatsoever.

[M2d]

Is that true even if I thought that he'd fire again?

[mike l.]

it'd be strange for him to value bet a pocket pair there against you and a bad player still hanging around on the river on an uncoordinated board. also strange for him to bluff there again w/ KQ although that'd be less strange.

against 95%+ players you would just bet the river here and expect either dumb bb or paranoid/pissed cuotff to call the vast majority of the time and for both of them to call at least some of the time. there's more value there, like way way more value, then going for a checkraise.