A 20-40 hand from Hollywood Park last night

hakeem · #1 09-15-2004, 06:10 PM

20-40 live game at Hollywood Park. Very loose/wild game with a couple of maniacs.

I am on the button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP 3bets, MP+1 calls, folded to me who caps, SB (maniac) calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls, MP+1 calls. 6 to the flop...

Flop is T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB bets, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, MP folds, MP+1 calls, I 3-bet, SB caps, everyone calls.

Turn is K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP+1 raises, I 3-bet, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP+1 caps, I call, UTG+1 calls.

River is 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP+1 bets, I call, UTG+1 mucks hand in disgust.

Thoughts?

Ulysses · #2 09-15-2004, 06:27 PM

Too much action. That K is horrible v. maniacs, as it matches tons of stuff they will jack that flop with - KT, KQ, 9J, AJ, etc. I'd most likely call the flop, use further flop action to help define their hands, then usually fold to the bet and raise on the turn unless I am really sure I have the best hand.

Six_of_One · #3 09-15-2004, 06:37 PM

I don't like 3-betting the flop here unless you feel it'll get you a free card on the turn, which seems unlikely with this lineup.

I think 3-betting the turn is really overplaying your hand.

That 20-40 sure does look crazy at HP...last week I was there playing 15-30, and a progression of loose, wild players sat in that game just until their 20-40 seats opened up.

andyfox · #4 09-15-2004, 06:39 PM

Helluva game.

I'd have folded pre-flop to a 3-bettor of an UTG raiser. And I'd have folded the turn.

bobbyi · #5 09-15-2004, 06:40 PM

What are you trying to accomplish by three-betting the flop? I guess the classic argument would be: the pot is very large and you need to clean up your ace and king outs; since your gutshot justifies continuing anyway (four outs to the nuts, given the rainbow board), you should try to maximize your chance of winning by raising. That said, I still don't really like further pumping this pot at this juncture (although it's possible that you know it's going to end up capped no matter what you do). Can someone convince me that three-betting here is right? Is that boilerplate argument all there is?

haakee · #6 09-15-2004, 06:46 PM

hakeem != haakee

That said, definitely too aggro on the turn. Even against maniacs. That turn card is not that great for you.

hakeem · #7 09-15-2004, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What are you trying to accomplish by three-betting the flop? I guess the classic argument would be: the pot is very large and you need to clean up your ace and king outs; since your gutshot justifies continuing anyway (four outs to the nuts, given the rainbow board), you should try to maximize your chance of winning by raising. That said, I still don't really like further pumping this pot at this juncture (although it's possible that you know it's going to end up capped no matter what you do). Can someone convince me that three-betting here is right? Is that boilerplate argument all there is?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't really convinced either which is why I posted [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I figure the flop is capped regardless (SB for sure will raise). However finding out what MP+1's action is would have been more beneficial than letting it get around capped to him.

I believe I should also fold the turn when it comes around to me, just had a hard time putting anyone on anything (other than MP+1 who I figure is drawing to the same straight as me). SB had just called me to the river with 22 (no set) the hand before in a similar situation.

SA125 · #8 09-15-2004, 07:07 PM

"I'd have folded pre-flop to a 3-bettor of an UTG raiser."

Andy, you have AK on the button in a loose/wild game with maniacs and fold to a 3 bet PF? I can see it in a tough game with known players, but here? Why?

Steve A.

NLfool · #9 09-15-2004, 07:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Helluva game.

I'd have folded pre-flop to a 3-bettor of an UTG raiser. And I'd have folded the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously this has got to be high on the options you've got.

hakeem · #10 09-15-2004, 07:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Helluva game.

I'd have folded pre-flop to a 3-bettor of an UTG raiser. And I'd have folded the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously this has got to be high on the options you've got.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding the turn I agree with, folding pre-flop with these players is not even a thought entering my mind.